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Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

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Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#401

Post by lostmsu »

evan_ wrote: post #288
lostmsu wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> journalists absolutely do no have to disperse when police issues such an order to the general public The first amendment speaks nothing about who can be where. It just denies government the right to prosecute people for making statements.

> The first amendment speaks nothing about who can be where. It just denies government the right to prosecute people for making statements. "just" free speech? Might want to check your pocket constitution again. The first amendment also protects the free press- and the freedom to assemble. (Not to mention religion and to petition for redress of grievances)

Admittedly, I have no pocket constitution, but brisk search only talks about peaceful assembly, which riots are not.

Besides, you completely ignore the "who can be where" point.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#402

Post by lostmsu »

watwut wrote: post #274
lostmsu wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objective data? Video? Even an account from journalists?

You asked where they were located. I answered.

You replied to the question if they were intentionally picked from the crowd for being journalists. Not where they were located.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#403

Post by MisterBastahrd »

rpiguy wrote: post #371
bosswipe wrote: post #91

I had been heartened by the right's recent upswing in fierce support for the first amendment, but unfortunately I've seen little of that support during the protests as freedom of assembly and freedom of the press have been attacked. For example Rand Paul has not tweeted in a week. Sadly, as always, these kind of principled arguments, on both sides, are a sham to advance whatever the partisan battle of the week is.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

I hate to break it to you, but the Boston Tea Party that conservatives were so fond of hijacking for their own partisan purposes destroyed over a million US dollars (in today's money) in other people's property. YOU are comfortable sitting there and "defending property" because it props up a system that benefits you.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#404

Post by fzeroracer »

stonogo wrote: post #219
SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"numerous videos show police breaking windows themselves" I don't believe you. The umbrella guy breaking the AutoZone window with a hammer has no connection to any police department. Someone made that up on social media and people shared it because that's what people do. The only video I know of showing officers breaking a window is out of Seattle. It shows officers responding to a burglary in progress at a Target st…

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gv2ogk/news_ch...

How much clearer can you get that the police are committing property destruction and using it to blame protesters? Like there is no justification for the police doing this outside of using to make their own narrative so that they can bust some heads at the next protest.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#405

Post by standardUser »

rhino369 wrote: post #296
pwinnski wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read that if you tend to think, "it's a shame that black people are being killed by cops like this, but the rioting and looting MUST stop," perhaps you should consider thinking more like, "it's a shame that there is rioting and looting, but black people being killed by cops like this MUST stop."

There is no reason why it can't be "black people being killed by cops like this MUST stop" and "the rioting and looting MUST stop." Buried in your reasoning is the idea that the rioting and looting is helping reducing black deaths by cops. I see no reason to believe that. First, its directly putting people into violent conflict with police. So additional black people have been killed by police caused by the rioting.…

Rioting and looting don't generally kill people. Cops do kill people, time and time again, and they usually get away with it. That's why it is absurd to equate the two.

"There was a consensus that what happened to George Floyd was an atrocity."

Who cares? Thinking something is an atrocity accomplished precisely jack shit. Peaceful protests get ignored or mocked. Police forces continue to get more militarized. Far right politicians, like the president, encourage violence from their bully pulpit. At a certain point, people need to respond. To not respond is to encourage those who seek to abuse power.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#406

Post by lostmsu »

klyrs wrote: post #217
lostmsu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first one is concerning, but the incident appears to be resolved now (?). The second one does not seem like a major problem to me, as the police might not know a random filming guy showing some piece of paper to be an actual reporter, rather than just a friend of the rioters filming their action for YouTube. It seems it also was resolved. Unless there's an easy way for police to make a credible determination if t…

That's two examples, literally the first two hits of an obvious search. Officials are acknowledging that these are wrongful arrests, why can't you? There's 110 cases mentioned in this article. Instead of demanding that we spoon-feed you evidence, please continue looking into the evidence. Because there's tons of it and you know how to find it. > The first one is concerning, but the incident appears to be resolved now…

> Sure. Call it resolved. That does not mean that it didn't happen the way that it's being described.

I am not arguing if the events are misstated. I will continue calling it resolved, as crew took the apology and does not seem to want anything else. So why bring it up again?

> This is a really weird point to get hung up on, given that the title of the original article is "U.S. police have attacked journalists more than 120 times since May 28". Where does it say "intentional"? I can't decide if this is a strawman or goalpost shifting, but either way your approach to this conversation is odious.

This whole discussion is a subthread of a comment, that the title might be misleading, because for many it will imply intent to attack journalists specifically.

> Officials are acknowledging that these are wrongful arrests, why can't you?

If you want a serious talk, we should use proper legal terms. "Wrongful arrest" definitely does not apply to the second of two cases, and in the official statement that wording was not used. They did apologize for making a mistake, which happens. But it is a mistake permitted by the law due to special circumstances (e.g. a riot).

> please continue looking into the evidence. Because there's tons of it and you know how to find it.

I am not making extraordinary statements, to which I consider "police intentionally focus journalists".

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#407

Post by neeleshs »

chillwaves wrote: post #391
rpiguy wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because rioting isn’t free speech. All conservatives support peaceable assembly and protest. They also fiercely believe in property rights as inherently tied to the concept of liberty. It is right in the Declaration of Independence. No conservative worth his or her salt will defend theft, property destruction, etc.

This is such utter fucking bullshit. You can watch hundreds of videos of peaceful protesters being attacked by police. They are not looting. What you are saying is an outright lie. Conservatives are just practicing the same racist tribalism t hey always have. There is no structural logic to how they behave except "us vs them" and right now the police are hurting the right people. It is not and has never been about pr…

err.. There are so many videos of people grabbing stuff from stores and running. That is looting.

Now, If you make the argument that these people are not protesters but opportunistic thieves, then we can all move on.

Looting & destroying someone else's property as a response to injustice is almost as bad as the injustice itself.

This is not to say all protesters are looters, but that thieves take this opportunity to insert themselves into these situations masquerading as protesters.I have no sympathy for these people.(Not that anyone cares about my opinion)

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#408

Post by HoolaBoola »

adjkant wrote: post #381
kortilla wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

Protests have been regularly shown to let emergency vehicles through, I saw videos of this yesterday.

Usually "I saw videos of this" isn't a good argument, though I do agree. I've yet to see any proof of protests causing an emergency vehicle to arrive too late, while there are numerous counterexamples. The most memorable to me was the video of a street absolutely packed in France where they made room for the ambulance to drive through.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#409

Post by mikepurvis »

kortilla wrote: post #360
bradly wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a small suburb of San Diego the protest stopped traffic. Police forced the protesters off and then riots started and two banks were burnt down. Two weeks ago a San Diego police deputy was released from jail after serving only six months after sexually assaulting (why forced oral sex is not rape I’m not sure) 16 women that had called the police for help. He does not have to register as a sexual offender. Protesting…

Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Make noise, block access to some businesses, etc, but don’t block streets and cause traffic jams that could kill people FFS.

"What about" is not a helpful question here. Stay focused on the main issues.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#410

Post by Press2forEN »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #263
Press2forEN wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Suggesting that unfettered capitalism is resulting in extreme wealth inequality assumes we live in a system of unfettered capitalism. Which we don't, not even close.
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