Live data from Hacker News

Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 102 posts

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart pushing innovation? Citation needed.

Their new kiosks are so infernally slow that I like to imagine they're electron apps running on a raspberry pi, which would make them the very peak of innovation.

Same for McDonalds' ordering kiosks. They feel webtechy in the worst way. Plus they're horribly organized, probably to try to boost sales. Unless the line at the counter's over 4 deep I can't imagine the kiosks being faster, even if there's no wait for them.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#42

This is a very hard problem and thinking a product could do this without extremely high error rates is naive. Any implementation should use this as a supplement only, not replacement for humans. For example a human watching 10 checkouts and quickly manually reviewing scenes flagged as suspicious. Any implementation should also account for the fact that loss will still occur and account for that in the RoI. The fact t…

Preventing scanning one item and placing two on the bag? It's an easy problem. Just have scanned items be placed on a scale. People will be bagging stuff to take home, so just have bags placed on a scale and observe the weight increase as items are placed in the bag. You probably know the weight of one jug of milk, but even if you don't, it's easy to "learn" the weights of new SKUs statistically.

Early self-check kiosks did this very poorly. It was super frustrating as a customer to be constantly asked to "please place the item in the bagging area", even when I already had, not to mention the hassle it caused when buying something you don't want to bag. Eventually I'm assuming they gave up on that and turned it off.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#43
Walmart are scumbags who will pursue shoplifting charges with no evidence and try to collect from innocent people. [1] I'm not surprised they are using AI for this, a system that's bound to cause false positives. It should be illegal for them to make such accusations and take up the court's and the defendant's time, money, resources, and freedom. False accusations should carry heavy penalties. Instead, they carry no penalties. Once again, another instance where the average person will get fucked over with no recourse.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/business/falsely-accused-...

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#45

This is a very hard problem and thinking a product could do this without extremely high error rates is naive. Any implementation should use this as a supplement only, not replacement for humans. For example a human watching 10 checkouts and quickly manually reviewing scenes flagged as suspicious. Any implementation should also account for the fact that loss will still occur and account for that in the RoI. The fact t…

Preventing scanning one item and placing two on the bag? It's an easy problem. Just have scanned items be placed on a scale. People will be bagging stuff to take home, so just have bags placed on a scale and observe the weight increase as items are placed in the bag. You probably know the weight of one jug of milk, but even if you don't, it's easy to "learn" the weights of new SKUs statistically.

Is this not standard everywhere self checkouts are used? All of the ones I've ever seen used scales and enforced the weight matching the scanned item. Of course, there are still possible cheats: not putting the item in the bagging area, for example, or telling the kiosk you are buying carrots and then weighing something more expensive.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#47
post #6
post #2

As someone who has inadvertently stolen from Walmart on more than one occasion, I cant attest that their anti-shoplifting AI does not work.

How does one inadvertently steal?

I got home to find a package of microfiber cleaning cloths in one of my bags once. I have absolutely no idea how they got there. But I guess I 'stole' them. Was going to bring them back to the store but realized that would probably be super weird so I just kept them.

I've also walked out of Lowes with a couple dollars in random hardware in my pocket before. Went in for some screws so didn't grab a cart, decided to pick up some other stuff since I was there, and stuffed them in my pocket temporarily. Forgot about them during checkout. I actually went back and paid for those though because I felt like such an idiot about it.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#48

This is a very hard problem and thinking a product could do this without extremely high error rates is naive. Any implementation should use this as a supplement only, not replacement for humans. For example a human watching 10 checkouts and quickly manually reviewing scenes flagged as suspicious. Any implementation should also account for the fact that loss will still occur and account for that in the RoI. The fact t…

Preventing scanning one item and placing two on the bag? It's an easy problem. Just have scanned items be placed on a scale. People will be bagging stuff to take home, so just have bags placed on a scale and observe the weight increase as items are placed in the bag. You probably know the weight of one jug of milk, but even if you don't, it's easy to "learn" the weights of new SKUs statistically.

“Unexpected item in bagging area”

They tried this. Was a disaster.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#49
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that the self service kiosk just stops functioning if it thinks something is wrong. I'm not sure how many high intensity "you're stealing!" confrontations really occur.

It should really allow you to continue scanning but prevent you from paying until the associate confirms that you're not stealing. That's 90% of the issue with the weight sensors -- the sensor stops me from moving forward with other purchases because it's making me wait for someone to check my stuff. But if they left the notification on while I continued to scan that would eliminate my issues with it entirely. Then t…

The self checkouts at my local Walmarts already do this. When an error occurs it flags for help but lets me proceed up until it is time to pay. By then usually an associate has already made their way over to check the errors in batch vs 1 at a time as they come up.

It's so much nicer of an experience compared to machines that just stop functioning until an employee can "help" you.

Re: Walmart employees are out to show its anti-shoplifting AI doesn’t work

#50
post #6
post #2

As someone who has inadvertently stolen from Walmart on more than one occasion, I cant attest that their anti-shoplifting AI does not work.

How does one inadvertently steal?

If you have kids it's really easy. You don't notice that they put an item in their stroller or inside another item that you're buying (like you're buying a cooler and they put a toy in the cooler).

Technically it's your kids stealing, but since you are responsible for their actions, it's on you.

When this happens to me I usually let them know the next time I'm at that store (or if I discover it in the parking lot I go back in). Sometimes they charge me for it, usually they just say thanks for being honest.

Post reply on HN