What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout • Hacker News Board

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#41

Post by mongol » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #22

mongol wrote: post #13

I think Trump should use the White House homepage for his communications. And what he writes on Twitter and Facebook, those platforms should at least be as liable for as if Trump wrote the same thing in an opinion piece in a newspaper. I think AWS and Azure are true "platforms" but Facebook and Twitter are social media. They are more similiar to other media than to technical platforms. I think the buck should end wit…

Isn't this what section 230 prevents? It protects Facebook and Twitter from this specifically. It's also what Trump was pushing back on.

I don't know the details of that since I don't live in the US. But I googled and read this

> No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider

I think there is a distinction where this should apply and when not, and that is when the service acts "editorial" and when not. I see editorial as making choices what the user sees and not. I think all social media makes such choices today. They "recommend" you things, and thus I think they are editorial. Compare this with a static blog on AWS S3. All content comes from the writer. Amazon does not making any editorial calls at all. I think there is a distinction to make here.

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#42

Post by wvenable » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #40

wvenable wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have far too much power, and not enough internal controls, to be involved in politics. How does this compare with television? Newspapers? Any form of media? Facebook isn't special. Maybe you're right, but if you are, the problem is bigger than one tech firm. It's bigger than all tech firms.

The problem is exactly something Trump complained about. Big tech companies are using a law made to protect ISPs to avoid getting sued for whatever people say on their platforms, including stuff their own employees say. Other forms of media can be sued. This is a huge difference.

The OP is complaining about editorial control and bias but traditional media companies have full editorial control and biases.

Whether or not someone can be sued for content created by other people seems completely irrelevant to the discussion. In either case, you can always sue the content author.

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#43

Post by JesusChrist2020 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

"Incitement to riot" is a criminal offense. Every smug rich white Silicon Valley liberal who has participated in fanning the flames of this fire should enjoy your last few days of wealth, power and status because the victims of these riots are going to sue you into oblivion and we are going to help them to put you into prison where you belong. Flagging and downvoting will not save you. We're coming for you.

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#44

Post by xhkkffbf » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

klingonopera wrote: post #18

thundergolfer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you that Facebook is both very powerful and very involved in politics. Just the month it came out that their own research found their recommendation systems were engaging people with the far-right. The execs allowed it. It is impossible for Facebook to exist and act outside of politics. It’s a nonsensical idea that they could avoid involvement in political issues given the definition of politics.

I find it ok for Facebook to do something like their "Top stories" based on what their algorithm determines for me. But I'm somewhat annoyed that "Most recent" doesn't actually sort the news feed chronologically, and also show everything. The algorithm is still doing something there.

Yes! I want to see everything my friends are posting, not what FB thinks I should see.

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#45

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #39

thundergolfer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you that Facebook is both very powerful and very involved in politics. Just the month it came out that their own research found their recommendation systems were engaging people with the far-right. The execs allowed it. It is impossible for Facebook to exist and act outside of politics. It’s a nonsensical idea that they could avoid involvement in political issues given the definition of politics.

" It’s a nonsensical idea that they could avoid involvement in political issues given the definition of politics." It's sensical. The issues are objectivity and established protocols, independent of executive tinkering or favour. If some government agency, or industry body, 'very intelligently' and hopefully in collaboration with all the necessary parties (highly doubtful but possible), established a set of 'regulato…

For those those who aren't familiar with some less savory parts of US history, the phrase "when the looting starts..." has rather ignoble origins. Specifically, Miami's Police Chief Walter E. Headley uttered that phrase in 1967 in support of white supremacy and in response to an outbreak of violent crime [0]. It's the callback to white supremacists of the 1960's is makes the statement a racist dog-whistle of a statement. That's the context that isn't, and can't be cold nor boring.

I'm sure neither Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey want to do any of this, even if only for the simple economic reason that paying for moderation and fact checkers cuts into the company's profit margin, and that they've been mostly hands off with content moderation thus far.

That they're having this discussion should then be taken as a signal that things are different, and hosting user-generated content is no longer the free-for-all it was in 2009, for better or worse.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_looting_starts,_the_s...

Re: What Facebook doesn’t understand about the Facebook walkout

#46

Post by pizzicato » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

xhkkffbf wrote: post #44

klingonopera wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ok for Facebook to do something like their "Top stories" based on what their algorithm determines for me. But I'm somewhat annoyed that "Most recent" doesn't actually sort the news feed chronologically, and also show everything. The algorithm is still doing something there.

Yes! I want to see everything my friends are posting, not what FB thinks I should see.

Perhaps less applicable to the Facebook issue, but I have found Mastodon to be a potentially viable replacement for Twitter, though it definitely skews heavily towards the tech crowd.

Chronological timelines, and user-driven moderation. Plus there are way more users now than there were when I joined a few years ago.