Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it • Hacker News Board

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#441

Post by derefr » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

SahAssar wrote: post #290

modernerd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand abstaining from a platform on principle. But it's pretty simple to opt-out of non-essential telemetry because so many people complained about it in Windows 10: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-view-and-manage-diagnosti... I set telemetry to 'basic' which means I'm comfortable with essential system data being sent in return for my system gaining updates and security patches. Microsoft does a better job…

There is no such thing as essential telemetry. There should be an option to turn it off completely.

There's unavoidable telemetry. I.e., there's metadata about your interactions with Microsoft's servers that Microsoft inescapably derives from those interactions. You can certainly ask them to throw that metadata away; but—if you're paranoid enough to be worried what they'll do with it in the first place—then why are you trusting them at their word?

It would seem the only route to privacy, in such a world, is to never interact with their servers at all; which means never receiving updates; which makes any OS into a lame-duck product vulnerable to all manner of exploits; which probably means you should just never touch a computer in the first place, "to be sure."

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#442

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

meroje wrote: post #439

Nextgrid wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd probably find a more authoritative source and better documentation by searching, but here's my understanding of it: USB-C can be used with alternate modes like DisplayPort or Thunderbolt, where the wires are no longer transmitting USB data but are used as a dumb pipe for the underlying protocol. If you get a hub it can choose to either operate in the following conditions (depending on its type and capabilities)…

But I don't need or care about all that, what I need is a hub just like we had all those years that gives usb3 connectivity in a c form factor to 5 devices or more. If I need more there are plenty docking stations available. edit: I also looked for a usb A hub with usb-c upstream, still no luck and stuck with a hub+power adapter and dinky otg a-to-c.

As far as I know the spec doesn't allow it for some reason. I guess one reason could be the power side (which I haven't mentioned and I am not familiar with it)?

Let's assume the hub requests 19V from the upstream port. Unless it has built-in, variable, per-port voltage regulation, it will not be able to respond to power requests from the downstream devices if they differ from what is coming from the upstream port.

This isn't a problem when providing USB-A ports because you either request 5V from upstream and pass it through or request a higher voltage and have a single 5V regulator and pass its output to the downstream ports.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#443

Post by keepper » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

So let me get this straight...

The complaint is that you've been able to use a laptop, for 7 years, where no other manufacturer has even COME CLOSE to the longevity of apple equipment, even at the same price range.

So for SEVEN YEARS, you have not given a CENT to apple. and have gotten free software updates, no pay for new OS's. ( again, no one does this ).

...and the complain is that you don't "love it".

are you serious?

Well, maybe you should remember that people tended not to love their hardware manufacturers until apple decided to pivot to making great hardware.

I would say "vote with your money", but its clearly that you don't do that, since well, you didn't give them a cent for 7 years...

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#444

Post by derefr » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #425

modernerd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say Microsoft adds one. You tick it and what MS currently considers “essential telemetry” is turned off completely, instantly, and for real. The risk seems to be that people who don't understand the implications of not sharing basic telemetry, when faced with a box that says “share nothing”, “share essential“, and “share essential and optional” would choose “share nothing” every time, because it just _feels_ be…

I understand those and I still don't want to share any telemetry. I'm just asking for freedom to be able to select this option. Btw, what you're saying is 100% bullshit. There is an obvious trivial way of doing all what you suggested, properly & legitimately: paid software testers . Or, alternatively, actually pay users for telemetry (I love it when companies say "we value your feedback" you value it at $0 all right!…

Software testing only helps if you're an average user. Most of us here are guilty of doing stupid edge-case bullshit at least occasionally.

The well-known quip of "search for an answer to your problem, find a forum post from ten years ago resolved with an 'I figured it out, thanks'" only happens when you're far outside the idiomatic usage of the system.

Sometimes it's necessary; sometimes long-chosen buisness constraints force down the bad arm of an X-Y problem. But that doesn't make it any more likely that anyone other than you (especially the software vendor's QA dept.) will ever independently encounter your problem.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#445

Post by ElFitz » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

keepper wrote: post #443

So let me get this straight... The complaint is that you've been able to use a laptop, for 7 years, where no other manufacturer has even COME CLOSE to the longevity of apple equipment, even at the same price range. So for SEVEN YEARS, you have not given a CENT to apple. and have gotten free software updates, no pay for new OS's. ( again, no one does this ). ...and the complain is that you don't "love it". are you ser…

It's the new one that he doesn't "love". The one he just bought. Seven years after the previous one.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#446

Post by ksec » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #417

ksec wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Funny last time I wrote about the same large trackpad issue on HN I was heavily downvoted. And despite how many have said this new magic keyboard is better. I still dont get it. It felt exactly the same as the previous butterfly keyboard, and to me it felt awful. The 2015 scissors keyboard is still million times better. 1.5mm of Key Travel, 60g grams of actuation force was the perfect combination. The newer Key…

Honestly, compared to the 2007(?) 17" macbook pro and especially to the pismo... I find that my 2015 15" Macbook Pro already had an unpleasant keyboard, with wobbly keys and too little travel. I think the pismo and the 17" where the only macs that I have ever owned that I really liked...

Definitely agree on wobbly keys and that is something better on the newer Butterfly / Magic Keyboard. I just wouldn't trade it with Key travel though.

I think the pre 2015 / 17" Macbook Keyboard had 1.8mm Key Travel. And 1.5mm felt different but not bad. I tried the Surface Pro which said it had 1.3mm Key Travel. And to me that is about as low as it can go before the typing experience deteriorate rapidly. I remember reading somewhere there are certain laptop with 1.1mm Key travel but they compensate it with higher actuation force, so instead of 60g it was something like 70g to make up for the difference.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#447

Post by ablp » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

keepper wrote: post #443

So let me get this straight... The complaint is that you've been able to use a laptop, for 7 years, where no other manufacturer has even COME CLOSE to the longevity of apple equipment, even at the same price range. So for SEVEN YEARS, you have not given a CENT to apple. and have gotten free software updates, no pay for new OS's. ( again, no one does this ). ...and the complain is that you don't "love it". are you ser…

This message is sponsored by Apple.

Really, have you never heard of the IBM/Lenovo T series? T400 is more durable than Apple.

The recent T series are garbage as well.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#448

Post by derefr » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

anikk wrote: post #364

modernerd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say Microsoft adds one. You tick it and what MS currently considers “essential telemetry” is turned off completely, instantly, and for real. The risk seems to be that people who don't understand the implications of not sharing basic telemetry, when faced with a box that says “share nothing”, “share essential“, and “share essential and optional” would choose “share nothing” every time, because it just _feels_ be…

Could you stop the MSFT advertisements? - All of these are possible without telemetry. - There is a deceptive button on install that does not work. - Make it opt-in for submissive persons who want to please MSFT.

> Make it opt-in for submissive persons who want to please MSFT.

Users don't read. Anything that's opt-in will never be opted into, because users won't even look at what the dialog says. (See also: organ donation.)

Most of UX design isn't targeted at people with opinions; it's targeted at the 99% of users who want to never make any decisions at all, because they don't see the system they're interacting with as their responsibility to dictate the policy of. They treat even their own computer—at least in the software sense—as "somebody else's computer."

They're used to interacting with the literal "somebody else's computer" at work, and at informational kiosks; and with the non-literal "somebody else's computer" in the form of the game-console walled-gardens, and the cloud-managed IoT devices. So it's no surprise that they think that "somebody else's computer" rules apply to their PC, too.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#449

Post by modernerd » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #425

modernerd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say Microsoft adds one. You tick it and what MS currently considers “essential telemetry” is turned off completely, instantly, and for real. The risk seems to be that people who don't understand the implications of not sharing basic telemetry, when faced with a box that says “share nothing”, “share essential“, and “share essential and optional” would choose “share nothing” every time, because it just _feels_ be…

I understand those and I still don't want to share any telemetry. I'm just asking for freedom to be able to select this option. Btw, what you're saying is 100% bullshit. There is an obvious trivial way of doing all what you suggested, properly & legitimately: paid software testers . Or, alternatively, actually pay users for telemetry (I love it when companies say "we value your feedback" you value it at $0 all right!…

Agree about paying for QA. Users shouldn't be glorified beta testers.

I don't think “just hire QA” or “just pay for the telemetry” solves the issues of how you reliably deliver updates, bug fixes, and asses performance issues at the scale of a company like Microsoft, though. Even the best-funded QA department and millions spent incentivizing data sharing could struggle to achieve a fraction of the coverage that metrics baked into the OS achieves.

> Or, alternatively, actually pay users for telemetry

At a _minimum_, people should at least get free software updates based on findings from the metrics they share. By opting out I'm relying on others to provide that data instead, or for the company to spend more to get it from me or someone else like me, or for them to somehow improve the experience for me without knowing what my experience is.

I recognize that some feel very strongly that software should be possible to improve without any form of automated telemetry, though, and I respect the desire for an off switch and the continued drive for opt-out being the default.

Re: Seven years later, I bought a new MacBook. For the first time, I don't love it

#450

Post by exdsq » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

thomaslord wrote: post #277

exdsq wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL2 is a Linux VM, what's your use-case for native over that? - You can disable updates - I'm on the insider version and this has never happened to me, let alone for 'normal' users. - You can uninstall all of that stuff - It's not that bad, I work on a decentralised database and we have similar performance across Windows and Linux. Windows was a bit tougher to do but it got there :)

I'm honestly baffled that you've never experienced an update that bricked your system - how long have you been using Windows? Two years ago Microsoft released an update that killed Windows on my brand new (at the time) desktop (i7-8700k, gtx 1080). I thought "no big deal, I'll boot up my old desktop and deal with it later" but when I turned on that machine (i5-2500k, rx480), it applied the same update and also killed…

I’ve only worked in tech for six years but I started as a sysadmin and managed a network of ~50 windows computers for two years, and then worked in a windows dev shop for three years, and I’ve never once seen an update brick Windows.

I’ve bricked windows by being dumb but I’ve also bricked Linux by being dumb. Sometimes I feel like it’s cool to hate Windows, like it’s cool to hate Java.