Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

fivethirtyeight.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 799 posts

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#691

Post by ashtonkem »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #686
ashtonkem wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that kneeling on a restrained human’s neck for 9 minutes isn’t something they knew could lead to the severe injury or death of that person would be laughable if it wasn’t so chilling to hear you defend. If I owned a martial arts studio and I let a student do that, I’d face criminal & civil liability. Why shouldn’t trained officers of the law be held to at least that standard?

I'm not questioning if they should be held liable. I'm questioning if they should be arrested as accessories to murder.

If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial. If you’d done 1/10th of that to a cop, you’d be lucky to survive your arrest.

Part of the outrage is how blatantly unequal the treatment of cops and and civilians accused of crimes are. It’s especially galling because not only are they given the power of the state, they are also given extra rigorous training in the safe application of force. If anyone should have reasonably known that kneeling on someone’s neck would be lethal, it would be the cops.

Oh, and all the bystanders who clearly recognized what was going on. Apparently they’re more wise to the dangers of kneeling on a restrained human’s neck than the police are.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#692

Post by mc32 »

kelvin0 wrote: post #655
baybal2 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not insightful at all. > after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. The thing is that they can. That's a very deliberate tactic, down to planting of provocators. If you been watching what's going on around the world, the allegations of that, including provoca…

Exactly. There exists an asymmetry in the dynamics of protesters vs police during a protest. Very simple: Anyone can be 'planted' in a group of protesters to start stirring up trouble (agent-provocateur). Then the police have 'justification' to use whatever amount of force they think is required. On the other hand, it's practically impossible for a regular citizen to be embedded into a riot police response unit. Add…

People also can counter plant and plant someone to feign being a first level plant to be able to point out that the violence was instigated by a plant. Both sides can and do do that.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#693

Post by 0xBA5ED »

ashtonkem wrote: post #691
0xBA5ED wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not questioning if they should be held liable. I'm questioning if they should be arrested as accessories to murder.

If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial. If you’d done 1/10th of that to a cop, you’d be lucky to survive your arrest. Part of the outrage is how blatantly unequal the treatment of cops and and civilians accused of crimes are. It’s especially galling because not only are they given the power of the state, they are also given extra rigorous training in the safe application of…

>If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial.

The difference is, police are authorized to use violence so there are other considerations about whether it was mistake or malice.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#694

Post by ashtonkem »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #693
ashtonkem wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial. If you’d done 1/10th of that to a cop, you’d be lucky to survive your arrest. Part of the outrage is how blatantly unequal the treatment of cops and and civilians accused of crimes are. It’s especially galling because not only are they given the power of the state, they are also given extra rigorous training in the safe application of…

>If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial. The difference is, police are authorized to use violence so there are other considerations about whether it was mistake or malice.

They’re authorized to use necessary violence; kneeling on a handcuffed man’s neck was not a justifiable application of force. I genuinely cant believe I have to explain that.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#695

Post by 0xBA5ED »

ashtonkem wrote: post #694
0xBA5ED wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you did 1/2 of what the other cops did, you’d already be in jail pending trial. The difference is, police are authorized to use violence so there are other considerations about whether it was mistake or malice.

They’re authorized to use necessary violence; kneeling on a handcuffed man’s neck was not a justifiable application of force. I genuinely cant believe I have to explain that.

They all didn't kneel on the man's neck.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#697

Post by cpursley »

learc83 wrote: post #684
cpursley wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own shares of Apple via my retirement plan. Am I elite?

Are you purposely being obtuse? Or are you trying to argue against a different point than the one I made? If not, please explain how you having a mutual fund means that "the elites" who control Apple aren't impacted by lost revenue.

I'm really lost here. How exactly will hurting Apple sales help resolve police violence?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#698

Post by cpursley »

untog wrote: post #674
cpursley wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe if those of us begging to be heard were allowed to speak, and scream and chant, it would inspire more people to unite, organize and vote. You can. As far as I know, the US is still a democratic country with elections.

Is it even worth going through the ways in which US democracy is broken? From the electoral system itself all the way down to extremely obvious voter suppression efforts (often specifically targeting black people), you really can't be too surprised that people do not feel that their voices are being heard.

It's not perfect so the solution is to just burn it all down?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#699

Post by untog »

cpursley wrote: post #698
untog wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even worth going through the ways in which US democracy is broken? From the electoral system itself all the way down to extremely obvious voter suppression efforts (often specifically targeting black people), you really can't be too surprised that people do not feel that their voices are being heard.

It's not perfect so the solution is to just burn it all down?

Why do you think the people protesting want to burn down the entirety of US democracy? Nothing I have seen would suggest that.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#700

Post by ashtonkem »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #695
ashtonkem wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re authorized to use necessary violence; kneeling on a handcuffed man’s neck was not a justifiable application of force. I genuinely cant believe I have to explain that.

They all didn't kneel on the man's neck.

Yes, that’s why I’m focusing on the word “accessory”. Don’t move the goal posts.
Post reply on HN