551–560 of 799 posts
We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…
I don't read that article as supporting the title that descalation leads to less violence. it does discuss evidence for escalation being correlated with more violence. but you can't blanket say that's causal. These are complex situations that don't follow rules. The mob consists of peaceful protesters, violent protesters and looters. people's membership in any of these groups can be multiple and shift over time. it's…
This way of thinking, looking at it as a war-like situation and vocabulary, is what leads to escalation. On the other hand, neither is a completly off-hands approach. Tough call, right? Funny thing, when white guys with masks, tactical vests and AR-15s stormed official government buildings, e.g. in Minisota, police didn't intervene.
And seriously, hand-to-hand combat? Hope you're not a cop.
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I have always suspected that US police are shunted into sub-optimal patterns because there are so many guns here that the odds a simple interaction will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that? That doesn't mean that they can't do more de-escalation or take other steps, but the high prevalence of guns does seem like it would be a contribu…
> will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that? Switzerland (disclaimer; I'm Swiss) has also lots of weapons around, but if the police are ever shooting someone it's usually big news with investigations on whether it was really necessary. From my laymen point of view, police training and holding them accountable to their actions is probab…
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>The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organizers meeting and jointly managing protests, but that this practice fell into disuse after the 1999 Seattle WTO meeting in which protesters violated the negotiated terms and police responded with violence. Beyond the general history, this is a big ask of the protesters when one of the primary motivator…
It's a big ask when politicians have been acting like they can ignore protests which is what the past, hell, decade or so has really been like. The political class had collectively decided they understood protests, that people would turn up peacefully, shout some slogans and then go home. But that's not what a protest is . A protest is a clear and specific message "this is how many people took time out of their day,…
Decade? More like century. The labour demonstrations in the 19th and 20th century were ignored until they got militant. Nothing's changed since then in the US.
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> wasn’t organized ahead of time Protests might have been unorganized, but riots most certainly are organized. Torching a police car carries a minimum 5 year sentence. It's not the protesters who are doing that. Moreover, it is still being "organized". Someone keeps dropping off pallets with bricks. There are agitator leaflets all over twitter. People have been recorded on video handing out cash to "protesters" from…
We had a peaceful protest in Kansas City on Friday where some police joined in, listened to protestors, took a knee with the protestors, and the mayor joined the protest as well. It was peaceful and all over the news. The very next day we had several trucks unloading beds of bricks and large rocks throughout the Plaza (where protests were and would be again that night) throughout the day and people were snapping vide…
It is more likely the police are doing this as a sign of their own solidarity with other police officers rather than with the protestors. After all, this entire thing started because of kneeling.
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https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...
What that statistic shows is that even if some white people can't bring themselves to get angry about police murdering black people they should at least be angry about police also murdering white people. What that statistic definitely doesn't mean is that people shouldn't be angry about police murdering black people.
From afar, it seems to me like the big problem in US policing is a lack of calm professionalism. The de-escalation approach in the article would to me but just one aspect of taking a professional approach where safety and following rules and best practices is paramount (and prioritised over 'winning' against criminals).
I have had to patrol streets in Iraq during the surge in 2007, It was dangerous, but our ROE had escalations rules and everyone patrolled at a low ready with their helmets off. The intent was to make us a boring part of the background rather than an antagonist, and to make us look like we didn't want to be there as much as they didn't want us there. Cop's look more and more like soldiers and I think you're right abou…
Now, it seems that I misjudged it. What say is basically shedding a very bad light at LE in the US, when even the military, in Iraq of all places, had better ROEs for policing than the actual police.
Maybe it is related to looking like a soldier, acting like a soldier, without being a soldier. No idea, all I can say is that I don't like the situation at all. Let's hope nobody is deploying the armed forces.
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> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…
> I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. Can you spot the difference between an African and European swallow? I bet you can't. But a professional bird watcher could tell them apart in a second. Same thing with protestors. When I was active I could easily tell the difference between someone potentially violent and someone peaceful.…
Wait for it...
> The simple solution to this problem is for the police to target the troublemakers and to let the peaceful protestors be.
You are suggesting that the police should profile individuals based on their appearance?
We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that? Switzerland (disclaimer; I'm Swiss) has also lots of weapons around, but if the police are ever shooting someone it's usually big news with investigations on whether it was really necessary. From my laymen point of view, police training and holding them accountable to their actions is probab…
Isn't it quite difficult to get a carry permit for a gun in Switzerland though? Making it not that likely that a random citizen the police officer encounters will actually have a loaded gun.