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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#511

Post by xendo »

lxmorj wrote: post #454
beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

It is flabbergasting to me that we expect self-policing from protestors, but not the literal fucking police.

Policing by police usually leads to escalation. I think that's the point of this submission.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#512

Post by drewwwwww »

kuzimoto wrote: post #301
komali2 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only after a police station was burned down. Lord forbid nobody caught the murder on video. This happens all over America, all the time. Thread is full of links or a quick hop on google will serve you in this regard. What would have happened if it was citizens? All four would be in jail immediately , if they even get that far without being shot for "resisting arrest" first. At the very least they'd get a beating some…

> Only after a police station was burned down. I feel like that's more coincidence than anything > This happens all over America, all the time. Thread is full of links or a quick hop on google will serve you in this regard I bet there is tons of anecdotal data to support any claim. There needs to be aggregated data that shows it's happening in high enough rates to be a "systemic" issue. > Would you merely "lose your…

ah, yes, we’ll use the data collected by the same institutions doing the extra judicial murders. surely they’ve been keeping great notes. and then finally we’ll be able to prove that racism is real to some commenter on hacker news.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#513

Post by ncallaway »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #358
idealboy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insightful reply. I marched yesterday and police fired rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd because we were blocking a non-essential intersection. On a Sunday. We refused to leave and fortunately they left and let us have a peaceful march. There doesn’t seem to be an interest in separating out the extreme minority that protest violently. There had been zero violence or destruction that day. A very well-behaved crowd…

If you can do so without doxxing yourself, I'd appreciate to have a city to associate with these types of stories. Thanks.

This isn't exactly the same because things have been a little more chaotic in places in Seattle, but a lot of the force I've seen from the Seattle PD has been disproportionate.

Mostly flashbangs, fireworks, tear gas and mace.

A couple of videos associated with incidents in Seattle from tonight are here:

- https://twitter.com/izaacmellow/status/1267679820600668161

- https://twitter.com/jxyzn/status/1267684722341064704 (same incident, higher angle)

- https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1267673936659021830

The general characterization I would give is that there have been calm periods, and then moments of intense chaos. In the chaos, protestors have often been throwing projectiles (mostly plastic bottles, occasionally firecrackers; some have claimed bricks have been thrown in Seattle, but I haven't seen it myself).

However, in general I would say that the SPD has repeatedly been the party to _instigate_ the chaos, by launching a round of flashbangs, mace, and pepper spray.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#514

Post by ncallaway »

jeffdavis wrote: post #480
pmiller2 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it backwards. Voting and promoting change is what has not worked. Economic damage is likely to be the only thing that's going to persuade the elites to throw the working class a bone. You're witnessing the anger of the masses in its most pure form here.

Where is the MLK of 2020? I want to see someone who can go beyond their anger and have a plan and lead .

MLK was despised by white America of his time, _because_ of his leadership of protests.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#515

Post by rewoi »

rallison wrote: post #405
briandear wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

Nobody likes that these protests are likely to lead to increased transmission. It's a truly terrible choice. People are making that choice because these protests get to such a fundamental problem in our society that they are still worth it, despite the cost. And, as has been mentioned, mask usage is high, and these protests are outside. It doesn't eliminate the risk, but many, many people are still trying to minimize…

Police brutality has been problem for past 50 years. Maybe protests could wait for couple of weeks.

But your right to protest is more important than my right to life, freedom, going to work or pay rent.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#516

Post by ncallaway »

lazyjones wrote: post #497
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. FWIW, German police regularly used undercover, black-clad, violent agents as a pretext for breaking up peaceful protests. It's probably an established tactic. But the situation in the USA looks very different (from here), violent protesters appear to be a small minority of the problematic people, most of which are just crimina…

Agent provocateurs are definitely a concern for protest organizers. Be they from anarchists, white supremacists, the police, or the state.

There are a lot of bad actors that win with choatic protests.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#517

Post by gindely »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #485
znpy wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing many videos of police doing things like attacking journalists, beating their own cars so that they can later blame the protestors or videos of police unloading bricks from their pickup. The problem is not de-escalation, is that the police is behaving in a criminal manner.

Do you have the links for the second two (damaging own car, unloading bricks)?

What crazy times we live in, that a person only needs to ask for links for cops damaging their own police car and unloading bricks, but can regard US cops assaulting journalists as proven. No reflection on you, but where has America fallen to?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#518

Post by TulliusCicero »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #510
celticninja wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps ask the US police if they could kill unarmed black males at more appropriate times maybe?

The officer responsible was arrested and charged with murder. The other officers on the scene were all fired. Can you explain to me what the protest is about?

That it happened in the first place? That black people are treated worse by police as the norm?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#519

Post by 0xddd »

0xBA5ED wrote: post #510
celticninja wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps ask the US police if they could kill unarmed black males at more appropriate times maybe?

The officer responsible was arrested and charged with murder. The other officers on the scene were all fired. Can you explain to me what the protest is about?

And did those arrest and charges come before or after multiple days of protests? At this point the protests have snowballed into a larger frustration over police conduct (and I'm sure other issues), which only gets reinforced with each instance of force being used on those who are assembled peacefully.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#520

Post by 0xBA5ED »

0xddd wrote: post #519
0xBA5ED wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The officer responsible was arrested and charged with murder. The other officers on the scene were all fired. Can you explain to me what the protest is about?

And did those arrest and charges come before or after multiple days of protests? At this point the protests have snowballed into a larger frustration over police conduct (and I'm sure other issues), which only gets reinforced with each instance of force being used on those who are assembled peacefully.

The officers were fired the next day. Chauvin was arrested 3 days later.
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