De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer • Hacker News Board

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#41

Post by HarryHirsch » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

emperorsclothes wrote: post #38

HarryHirsch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Strange to see wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence that have no basis in reality.

They could have spoken up after that Brunswick murder but waited until this Monday, when Minneapolis went up in flames. That's how I know.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#42

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

dexen wrote: post #33

somebrody wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking Above, they cherry-picked a few cops that just happen to be the chief of police. It's not that simple. You don't understand the institutions involved if you highlight these examples. Police, police unions, district attorneys, etc. It's not simple.

>cherry picking Baseless accusation. The protests are mostly in the blue-voting cities, and the GP's list is representative. [edit] Here is how it works: Minneapolis, Chief of Police: nominated (...) by the Mayor of Minneapolis (Betsy Hodges) [1] Seattle, Chief of Police: [n]ominated by Mayor Jenny Durkan [2] St Louis, Comissioner of Police: appointed as the 35th Commissioners of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Dep…

>The protests are mostly in the blue-voting cities

Yes, in the cities where most people in this country live.

Where people are most educated.

Where most minorities live.

But sure, them darn demz, at it again.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#43

Post by briefcomment » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Are you joking? Do you not realize that most people are reasonable and do not want distress and despair? Do you fall out of that overwhelming majority?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#44

Post by 333c » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

olliej wrote: post #3

Yes, but police are functionally just wannabe soldiers, without the actual training. They want to beat people up. They want to be tough guys who have no consequences. Talking about how to fix policing means nothing until: * police go to jail * officers who do not report other officers go to jail * bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail * police are…

Can you elaborate on the IQ restrictions?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#45

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

emperorsclothes wrote: post #38

HarryHirsch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Strange to see wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence that have no basis in reality.

In *your reality, for which you should be greatful.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#46

Post by danharaj » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

dexen wrote: post #33

somebrody wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking Above, they cherry-picked a few cops that just happen to be the chief of police. It's not that simple. You don't understand the institutions involved if you highlight these examples. Police, police unions, district attorneys, etc. It's not simple.

>cherry picking Baseless accusation. The protests are mostly in the blue-voting cities, and the GP's list is representative. [edit] Here is how it works: Minneapolis, Chief of Police: nominated (...) by the Mayor of Minneapolis (Betsy Hodges) [1] Seattle, Chief of Police: [n]ominated by Mayor Jenny Durkan [2] St Louis, Comissioner of Police: appointed as the 35th Commissioners of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Dep…

This is what happens when your understanding of politics doesn't have a material basis. You think the color coding of ruling power means something.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#47

Post by somebrody » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

dexen wrote: post #33

somebrody wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking Above, they cherry-picked a few cops that just happen to be the chief of police. It's not that simple. You don't understand the institutions involved if you highlight these examples. Police, police unions, district attorneys, etc. It's not simple.

>cherry picking Baseless accusation. The protests are mostly in the blue-voting cities, and the GP's list is representative. [edit] Here is how it works: Minneapolis, Chief of Police: nominated (...) by the Mayor of Minneapolis (Betsy Hodges) [1] Seattle, Chief of Police: [n]ominated by Mayor Jenny Durkan [2] St Louis, Comissioner of Police: appointed as the 35th Commissioners of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Dep…

It's the cops on each force they cherry-picked. The fact that they are chief of police means nothing, but that you don't understand the institutions involved and how they work. This stuff is in front of SCOTUS and congress right now. It's not simple and it is very broken.

> The list of police chiefs & other officials is solid.

The list is solid ignorance of the institutions involved. It focuses on race of one part of police leadership and not police violence and the racist actions of many cops. Highlighting police chief race is a racial argument in the least and may be even a racist argument.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#48

Post by rectang » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

davros wrote: post #17

From afar, it seems to me like the big problem in US policing is a lack of calm professionalism. The de-escalation approach in the article would to me but just one aspect of taking a professional approach where safety and following rules and best practices is paramount (and prioritised over 'winning' against criminals).

I have always suspected that US police are shunted into sub-optimal patterns because there are so many guns here that the odds a simple interaction will involve a firearm are much higher than they are in less-well-armed societies. Does anybody know if I'm right about that?

That doesn't mean that they can't do more de-escalation or take other steps, but the high prevalence of guns does seem like it would be a contributing factor.

(I realize this touches a hot topic (guns) but it's an honest question, and sympathetic to law enforcement.)

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#49

Post by gonzo41 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

davros wrote: post #17

From afar, it seems to me like the big problem in US policing is a lack of calm professionalism. The de-escalation approach in the article would to me but just one aspect of taking a professional approach where safety and following rules and best practices is paramount (and prioritised over 'winning' against criminals).

I have had to patrol streets in Iraq during the surge in 2007, It was dangerous, but our ROE had escalations rules and everyone patrolled at a low ready with their helmets off. The intent was to make us a boring part of the background rather than an antagonist, and to make us look like we didn't want to be there as much as they didn't want us there.

Cop's look more and more like soldiers and I think you're right about the 'winning' being the main goal. Where i live, the cops are very tacticool, even though we have effective gun control and hardly any civilian vs police violence. All i think about is how much my back hurts now from carrying all that shit when I was in the military.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#50

Post by xvector » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

emperorsclothes wrote: post #38

HarryHirsch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Strange to see wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence that have no basis in reality.

Hundreds of videos have emerged of police brutality over the past few days. In how many of those videos do you see "good cops" taking down those bad cops committing acts of brutality?

Almost never. I myself have only seen two videos where this has been the case, out of hundreds!

Police racism and violence is an issue, but it becomes egregious when the rest of the police force just stands by.