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Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

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Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#271

Post by nikisweeting »

mellosouls wrote: post #76
weinzierl wrote: post #36

The Internet Archive does great work and please support them if you can[1]. Still, they are a single point of failure[2] and if they should falter one day it will be a big loss. What we really need - in my opinion - is a second mainstay - an archive of the archive so to speak. [1] https://archive.org/donate/ [2] Yes, I know about archive.today (formerly archive.is) but their extent is no way comparable to archive.org…

There are plenty of digital preservation initiatives around the world, many (most?) inspired by the Internet Archive, including various national libraries. The Internet Archive is a precious initiative and by far the most well known in its field, but it is not a "single point of failure".

Lots listed here: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#272

Post by nikisweeting »

weinzierl wrote: post #36

The Internet Archive does great work and please support them if you can[1]. Still, they are a single point of failure[2] and if they should falter one day it will be a big loss. What we really need - in my opinion - is a second mainstay - an archive of the archive so to speak. [1] https://archive.org/donate/ [2] Yes, I know about archive.today (formerly archive.is) but their extent is no way comparable to archive.org…

My approach is to try and archive things locally, and then rehost them via ipfs/my own file servers.

I've also listed many other projects that do related things in the ArchiveBox wiki: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#273

Post by faet »

mantap wrote: post #233
mardifoufs wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his issue is with the IA unilaterally deciding that they can chose that they want to simply ignore the authors rights to get compensated for their work at any moment they want. And I totally understand his frustration. It's one thing to have pirating websites that have always distributed copyrighted material illegally. But for IA to decide that they only play by the rules when they want to is different imo. N…

Do authors have rights to be compensated? If I go to a library and take out a book, the author doesn't get compensated again. The book may be read by hundreds of people but it was only paid for once. If I lend a book I own to a friend, the author doesn't get compensated again. It's my book, not the authors, and I can let anybody I want read it. There has never been an expectation that authors get compensated for each…

That's the difference between a physical and digital product. Physical products have the first sale doctrine and eBooks don't. They are also physically limited. One at a time. Degradation. Shipping. Loss. Theft.

With regard to libraries and eBooks there are two common licenses. One, libraries can loan one copy of one book out at a time n number of times, then they can rebuy it. Similar to a physical book that degrades due to wear. Two, libraries can loan n number of copies of a book out for a fixed per-loan fee.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#274

Post by AdrianB1 »

ilamont wrote: post #179

Indie publisher here. My company publishes mostly how-to guides relating technology, personal finance, and health. In fact this afternoon I am reviewing proofs of a new title written by a surgeon meant to inform patients (and their family members) dealing with thyroid cancer and thyroid nodules. What I and my peers do for a living is nothing like building rocket ships or designing amazing software applications, but i…

>>How would you feel if someone took your output without permission, whether it's designs or code or something else unique and hard to make?

The output of my work is finally money and more than half is taken away from me; most people agree with this and quite a lot think I should be left with even less. It is called taxes and please don't tell me it's not the same because it is the output of my work and it is taken away without permission, so it is the same word for word.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#275

Post by RNCTX »

ilamont wrote: post #179

Indie publisher here. My company publishes mostly how-to guides relating technology, personal finance, and health. In fact this afternoon I am reviewing proofs of a new title written by a surgeon meant to inform patients (and their family members) dealing with thyroid cancer and thyroid nodules. What I and my peers do for a living is nothing like building rocket ships or designing amazing software applications, but i…

> I'd like to put the question to those HN members who work in tech: How would you feel if someone took your output without permission, whether it's designs or code or something else unique and hard to make? How would you feel if people cheered this on, or called for your demise, suggesting that the world would be a better place without your work?

As someone with a humanities education (literature specifically) I feel like I've studied more than the average reader here about the particulars of famous printed works from the past. And that background says "bullshit" in response to your questions. Throughout history publishers have exploited authors mercilessly in an effort to keep ALL of the profit from their writing.

In short, the answer to your hypothetical question is quite simple. All of these people you're addressing have code, and have original ideas. You on the other hand are just a publisher, you don't have any original work at all. You're nothing but a middle man.

There are no more middle managers at toaster and television distributors in the developed world, sitting at desks filling out reports by hand and ordering fresh stocks of paperclips and staples. We got rid of those people when we modernized supply chains and in the process cut the prices of microwaves and televisions so that they're not luxury items anymore.

Similarly, there's not going to be any room for publishing middle men for very long either. If I were you I'd find a new line of work.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#276

Post by cygx »

mardifoufs wrote: post #266
uryga wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Libraries exist because they can lend a book to only one person at a time. this phrasing confused me for a minute, so to clarify: do you mean that if libraries could magically create infinite copies of a book, they wouldn't be allowed to exist, and are only tolerated because their presumed impact on copies-sold is limited?

We have had the ability to just reproduce books by printing them for literally centuries, and even more so since the commodification of printer technology. At even small scales, simply printing a book costs close to nothing. Yet libraries aren't just allowed to make copies of their most borrowed books and lend them away. Libraries are allowed to only lend the number of books they have bought because it's a good compr…

At even small scales, simply printing a book costs close to nothing.

I don't think that's true. As far as I'm aware, we're talking dollars, not cents. For mass-market paperbacks, it's less than that, but that's the opposite of small scale.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#277

Post by k__ »

RNCTX wrote: post #275
ilamont wrote: post #179

Indie publisher here. My company publishes mostly how-to guides relating technology, personal finance, and health. In fact this afternoon I am reviewing proofs of a new title written by a surgeon meant to inform patients (and their family members) dealing with thyroid cancer and thyroid nodules. What I and my peers do for a living is nothing like building rocket ships or designing amazing software applications, but i…

> I'd like to put the question to those HN members who work in tech: How would you feel if someone took your output without permission, whether it's designs or code or something else unique and hard to make? How would you feel if people cheered this on, or called for your demise, suggesting that the world would be a better place without your work? As someone with a humanities education (literature specifically) I fee…

This.

I made five figures by selling my book via a small publisher.

I know authors who sold their books via big publishers and they made magnitudes less money than me while selling magnitudes more copies than me.

To me this sounds like a broken system.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#278

Post by 0_gravitas »

pontifier wrote: post #265
lelandbatey wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you feel if someone took your output without permission, whether it's designs or code or something else unique and hard to make? I believe that being able to profit strictly from control of intellectual property is on the decline and will ultimately disappear. "Payment for access" to IP will be outcompeted by easy and ubiquitous technology for IP distribution (and thus infringement). I believe we'll move…

I disagree. Without protections on intellectual property, innovation is harmed. There is no incentive to invest substantial resources in development if there is no ability to profit.

> There is no incentive to invest substantial resources in development if there is no ability to profit.

Ever hear of this hip new thing called FOSS?

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#279

Post by RNCTX »

k__ wrote: post #277
RNCTX wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like to put the question to those HN members who work in tech: How would you feel if someone took your output without permission, whether it's designs or code or something else unique and hard to make? How would you feel if people cheered this on, or called for your demise, suggesting that the world would be a better place without your work? As someone with a humanities education (literature specifically) I fee…

This. I made five figures by selling my book via a small publisher. I know authors who sold their books via big publishers and they made magnitudes less money than me while selling magnitudes more copies than me. To me this sounds like a broken system.

A more valid hypothetical would be the expectation that developers working for Google and Microsoft would be expected to work for free, creating entire codebases for no money, with the only contribution from the publisher (Google and Microsoft) being an editor to glance at and reject ideas they thought unprofitable after the developers had spent countless hours / months / years creating them.

If the occasional developer working for free finds a profitable idea, the Google or Microsoft would pay them well under what that person requires to survive for one year, plus a small (less than 10%) residual royalty only after the developer has "paid back" the less-than-one-year amount which the Google or Microsoft called an advance rather than payment for the original work.

The only way the working-for-free developer could survive would be to teach other developers who also aspire to work for free, and in so doing suppress their urge to tell those students to go do quite literally anything else more productive, because succumbing to that moral urge would result in less students, which is the only way the developer can pay for rent and groceries.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#280

Post by mthoms »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #245
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making unauthorized copies of copyrighted material is infringement. That is why you weren't allowed to photocopy entire books before electronic distribution was viable. IA isn't on solid ground here.

You’re missing the point that IA is a library , and, as such, is awarded certain protections that an archival site might not otherwise have.

Honest questions -

Who gets to define an entity as a "library" and is IA defined as such, legally speaking?

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