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Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

health.ucdavis.edu

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Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#181

Post by Viliam1234 »

polytely wrote: post #16
kstenerud wrote: post #3

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

This mirrors my experience, I can pass for neurotypical I guess, but in new social situations I have to put in a lot of effort to figure out what behavior people expect from me. I guess it's great that I can blend into society but there is always the feeling that I'm just pretending to be a normal person. I feel that I've figured out how to be pleasant person to work with but sustaining deeper relationships feels alm…

People are different, and some types are more frequent than others.

Another important thing is social skills. If you have poor social skills, you will have problem connecting even with your type. If you have good social skills, you can find "harmony" with your type, and "cooperation" with other types.

The problem is that no amount of social skills will translate the "cooperation" into "harmony". At best it will make you a perfect social chameleon.

Therefore, people who belong to a frequent type need to learn social skills, but people who belong to an infrequent type need to learn social skills and then spend of lot of time searching for other people of the same type.

This is further complicated by the fact that people of the infrequent type often need to pretend to be someone else, in order to avoid social punishment. But if they pretend to be someone else, and the people they are looking for also pretend to be someone else for similar reasons, that makes it even more difficult to find each other.

Also it takes some maturity to understand what exactly your type is. Meanwhile, people of the frequent types will keep telling you "actually, all you need is to start doing things that I like to do; look at me, I have plenty of friends and social success!"

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#182

Post by Viliam1234 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #74
globular-toast wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends. First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure yo…

>You might think this sounds silly // Not wanting to offend but "sociopathic" is the word that comes to mind for me. Like "I'll do this to manipulate people and induce this response". I'm not going to say you won't be successful, just that your approach sounds very clinical and lacking in warmth and personality. You do you, I guess.

When I teach my kids to say "please" when they ask for things and "thank you" when they receive them, am I training them to be little manipulative sociopaths?

There are social rules that many people get told in childhood, or learn by observation. Those who didn't learn them, for whatever reason, may benefit from being told explicitly now.

Also, don't worry. Out of 100 people who read "make sure you're in excellent shape", 99 won't. And the remaining one is probably not a sociopath, and will not become one by following this rule.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#183

Post by onemoresoop »

jaggederest wrote: post #152
onemoresoop wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest thing I've learned is that I don't really like myself when I'm in full-facsimile mode, and so I consciously try to lower the facade whenever possible, but it's difficult after a lifetime of training by social sanctions Care to elaborate on this? What is the facsimile mode? My intuition tells me it’s the mirroring of the social interaction. If that’s what you mean I might have similar feelings towards it…

I just mean being fully in the facade of making all the expressions, gestures, and small talk stuff. Basically acting "normal" as much as I can. It's a lot of work, and it feels very fake. It feels disrespectful of the people around me, if I don't "mean it" when I say "Hey how's it going" and talk about the weather and sports and smile and nod.

I cannot do facade at all but I could comfortably be me under certain conditions: under low noise environment both physical and information, if I am not stressed out for another reason. I do feel awkward if I present something and I am not prepared but under certain conditions also I can wing it out nicely. It does depend a lot on whether I fit in within a group or not. If you think about it, forcing it when it's not there is really not very productive.

I am still not sure whether I am on the spectrum and wouldn't help me out much to be diagnosed, I've accepted a long time ago that I am somewhat different from the norm but not necessarily in a bad way, I simply am not a very good speaking person - I do excel in other modes of communication, just not with words. But I guess with hard work one can train to perform something that they're not natively apt to do just to get the job done, one doesn't have to strive to be best because that puts too much pressure and leads to stress. I hope you be compassionate and comfortable with yourself:)

Let me ask you one more thing. Do you dance at all? If not can you describe why not? I'm very curious.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#184

Post by woodandsteel »

bsder wrote: post #137
woodandsteel wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then what is it that people on the Asperger spectrum are missing, if it is not this ability?

You are asking a question that psychologists can't even definitively answer yet, you know.

That's not true. We don't know the causes of Asbergers, but there is lots known about their cognitive and behavioral deficits.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#185

Post by jaggederest »

onemoresoop wrote: post #183
jaggederest wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just mean being fully in the facade of making all the expressions, gestures, and small talk stuff. Basically acting "normal" as much as I can. It's a lot of work, and it feels very fake. It feels disrespectful of the people around me, if I don't "mean it" when I say "Hey how's it going" and talk about the weather and sports and smile and nod.

I cannot do facade at all but I could comfortably be me under certain conditions: under low noise environment both physical and information, if I am not stressed out for another reason. I do feel awkward if I present something and I am not prepared but under certain conditions also I can wing it out nicely. It does depend a lot on whether I fit in within a group or not. If you think about it, forcing it when it's not…

It's just second nature for me at this point. I'm on my game if I'm around people I can't 100% trust, and it takes another effort on top of that to shut it off. It makes a lot of things in my life a real struggle, but it is what it is.

I have danced, and do dance, but it's not exactly my favorite thing. Not super compelling to me.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#186

Post by krageon »

scandox wrote: post #6
kstenerud wrote: post #3

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

Presumably they're creeped out because they believe your emotional responses are simulated and that your engagement in phatic discourse is inauthentic? But how they can they tell the difference? And even if they can how do they know that this isn't also true of everybody else, only that others are superior fakers? How can they even know that their own responses are authentic? I ask because I'm really not sure about t…

Being "creeped out" is mostly a function of instinct. It's something you feel in your gut (or wherever instinct lives for you). This means that if you do not have it, it's hard to explain.

The questions you are asking sort of miss the point, there's plenty of ways people can explain their instinct but at the end of the day it's not really a conscious process. If you don't have the same instincts as some people have, I suppose it would be natural to end up with the questions you do. What's important to remember is that they don't have the answers either.

If you really want an explanation that may or may not be true, in my personal experience I can tell that things are simulated or inauthentic unless (as you say) they're being simulated by an extremely competent actor (in the sense that they are acting). Even with people who act very competently, there are always (at least, I've never met an exception) small indicators over time that feel a little wrong. You can't act 24/7, so the longer people interact with you (if you are acting) the more likely it is they'll see you slip up.

This isn't really a problem, as the experience of getting to know someone naturally tends to lead to you seeing them in an entirely different light. The trick is figuring out when to show some authentic drive of yourself and when to present a socially desirable composite. That trick is something you learn by making a lot of mistakes (or if there's some rule to it, I have no idea what it is). If you don't consciously stop acting at some point and people see through it on their own, then it becomes creepy. The ideal is to head that off and figure out together if you are compatible personality types.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#187

Post by onemoresoop »

jaggederest wrote: post #185
onemoresoop wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot do facade at all but I could comfortably be me under certain conditions: under low noise environment both physical and information, if I am not stressed out for another reason. I do feel awkward if I present something and I am not prepared but under certain conditions also I can wing it out nicely. It does depend a lot on whether I fit in within a group or not. If you think about it, forcing it when it's not…

It's just second nature for me at this point. I'm on my game if I'm around people I can't 100% trust, and it takes another effort on top of that to shut it off. It makes a lot of things in my life a real struggle, but it is what it is. I have danced, and do dance, but it's not exactly my favorite thing. Not super compelling to me.

I asked you about dancing because I used to.. anti-dance when I was trying to. At some point i started experimenting with rhythm and drums and something clicked and am not a more creative dancer than many and thought that may have been related to the spectrum but it’s probably not. Cheers

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#188

Post by forgotmypw17 »

JacksonGariety wrote: post #18

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

Every day, try to think of something you can share with them, and then do it. Some ideas:

Tell them about what made you smile that day. Neat moments that you appreciated, but they weren't there to share it with you.

Food and drink. Whatever you're eating and enjoying, share it with that friend. Either invite them out or bring/send it to them.

Text, pictures, and video. Funny and positive, no drama, politics, etc.

Experiences. Think of something you like to do that can be shared, and invite them out to do it.

Share your time and effort. Offer your help, once, maybe twice. Don't be pushy with it. If they accept, help them like a servant, doing exactly what they ask you.

The basic idea is to consistently repeat the combination of "spending time together with you" and "day is improved".

If you do one of these daily with five people for a month, I can almost guarantee you will end up with at least one friend.

After that, you can focus on that one person more for a month to deepen your friendship. After that, add a few more people, but maintain friendship with the one person.

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