Live data from Hacker News

San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

sfchronicle.com

221–230 of 342 posts

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#221
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law specifically excludes discounts in fact: " In determining the lowest gross rental amount pursuant to this section, any rent discounts, incentives, concessions, or credits offered by the owner of such unit of residential real property and accepted by the tenant shall be excluded. " Civil code section 1947.12.

Seems like a loophole ripe for abuse.

It's almost as if the law was amended by real estate lobbyists...

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#222
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are moving out but not in. Move-ins determine the rental market price.

This is an oversimplification of already simple market dynamics. What sets the market is the supply and demand. If demand drops sharply after an event like covid-19 and supply is held constant, prices will go down except in extremely distorted markets like the ones ISPs and telcos play in.

There are two parties to the transaction. The market clearing rate is set when the two parties agree. When one party is not showing up, there is no market clearing rate.

The intrinsic value may in fact be down, but there is no way to know for sure without two parties in the transaction.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has not been true in any major market for years, once you factor in all the fees that AirBnB doesn't disclose until you book a listing. Once fees are included, AirBnB is usually more expensive in markets like SF, LA, or NY for individual/couple listings than a comparably furnished hotel room (inclusive of fees).

Have you seen SF hotel rates during convention season? The most basic rooms go for $3-400. Have you tried to book a Paris hotel in summer? In my experience your statement is not true

Have you tried to book an AirBnb during a marathon? The most basic room goes for $200/night, before you add in the "cleaning" fees or the "service fees" or the other "fees" that hotels are required by law in their original quotes.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#224
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law specifically excludes discounts in fact: " In determining the lowest gross rental amount pursuant to this section, any rent discounts, incentives, concessions, or credits offered by the owner of such unit of residential real property and accepted by the tenant shall be excluded. " Civil code section 1947.12.

Seems like a loophole ripe for abuse.

What would happen if you included discounts as a part of rent control? I think you'd find more landlord's saying "no" when asked for a rent decrease.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control has a lot of unintended consequences. It is supposed to be a short term band-aid for bad zoning policies, but the zoning policies actually have to be fixed if you want to remove the band-aid.

I'm willing to bet you more than a beer that a large share of people under rent-control are high earners.

Someone did a study on this in SF. You can probably google it.

As you mention, a significant percentage of tenants with rent control would be regarded as "high income" households.

Hell, I know a guy who has a rent control units for a couple decades. He can pay his monthly rent with one day's take-home pay.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#226

If remote work becomes permanent for a lot of people and/or social distancing lasts a long time, I would expect a number of changes to happen: - Homes with more bedrooms will become significantly more attractive because people will want home offices (maybe one for each spouse!) - Homes with outdoor space will become more attractive - Quiet homes without noise from neighbors or the surrounding area will become more at…

I'm not sure remote work will drive much of that. Most families were already moving out of the cities into the suburbs. And young people want to be in the city for the social aspects and cultural aspects, and proximity to others.

I think what we might see is an increase in demand for bigger units in the city as a young single person may want a two bedroom place, one for their home office and one for sleeping, but still want to be in the city to be near all the cultural and social amenities.

And we'll also see increased demand for even bigger suburban homes as each spouse needs their own home office.

So I think we'll see increased demand for larger homes in both the city and the suburbs.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#227
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet you more than a beer that a large share of people under rent-control are high earners.

Someone did a study on this in SF. You can probably google it. As you mention, a significant percentage of tenants with rent control would be regarded as "high income" households. Hell, I know a guy who has a rent control units for a couple decades. He can pay his monthly rent with one day's take-home pay.

> Hell, I know a guy who has a rent control units for a couple decades. He can pay his monthly rent with one day's take-home pay.

It sounds outrageous, but I know someone like that too. Got a rent controlled box in Berkeley as a student, never left. Rent is only about $700 a month now. If you make $180,000 a year, that's a single day's pay.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent control has a lot of unintended consequences. It is supposed to be a short term band-aid for bad zoning policies, but the zoning policies actually have to be fixed if you want to remove the band-aid.

In defense of rent control, it provides a stabilizing force during a downturn. How many folks who live in an apartment that has been under rent control for 10+ years are packing up and moving into their parents basement right now? My guess is very few. It certainly has its issues, but there are much worse market distorting policies that I would like to see be fixed before rent control gets put on the chopping block.

Rent control in NYC also enormously important for elderly population, which has been systematically exploited by owners for centuries.

It is absolutely not in owner interests. But cities by and large have been built in accordance with owner interests.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet you more than a beer that a large share of people under rent-control are high earners.

Rent control is trumpeted as some sort of protection for low-income people, but it actually has no such provisions that make it available to, or targets such people. The only beneficiaries of rent-control are people who happen to be incumbent residents.

Much if its value is in protecting existing communities who would be displaced by rising rents, so yeah, it favours incumbents.

Re: San Francisco, Silicon Valley rents plunge amid downturn

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet you more than a beer that a large share of people under rent-control are high earners.

Rent control is trumpeted as some sort of protection for low-income people, but it actually has no such provisions that make it available to, or targets such people. The only beneficiaries of rent-control are people who happen to be incumbent residents.

...who are low/fixed income at the time.

"Affordable housing" is a completely separate issue.

Post reply on HN