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Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

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Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#101
post #96
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably right, but this doesn't solve the fundamental problem. People who do intellectual labor, such as writing books, must be paid because everyone must be paid. Nothing is free. There are two options: (1) Copyright law, which allows them to erect toll booths and charge readers and users for their work. (2) A socialist type of system where writers and other intellectual laborers are supported publicly. The…

no it is not the default that " intellectual labor" must be paid for in currency (which is the assumption of your post) my comment here for example is " intellectual labor" but i am not paid for it There are all kinds of labor that people do with out being paid in currency for it, they derive other value from that labor. You then present a false dilemma in that it is either copyright law or socialism (public funding)…

You are really comparing a Hacker News comment that took 1-2 minutes to write with the content of libraries? It's hard for me to write a civil rebuttal to this.

It takes years to write a good book. Years. It's not something you just whip out.

The same applies to any non-trivial piece of music, art, software, engineering, design, or any other form of intellectual labor. People spend years and years on that stuff but only after they spend years and years getting good enough at their craft to actually produce it.

I guess there's another option beyond the two I cited above:

(3) Everything is low effort shit.

Open Source is almost entirely funded by large companies. Pick a popular FOSS project and look at who's committing to it. They're people being paid by large companies to do the work because the company has some vested interest in supporting it. The counter-examples are either SaaS driven (meaning they're not really open) or dual licensed (meaning they're using copyright law).

This sort of philanthropy has limits. In particular it doesn't work for consumer items, only for stuff that companies use directly.

I really don't think you want to bring up YouTube as it actually proves my point. YouTube is a cesspool of propaganda and divisive trolling. That's the kind of content you get when it's "free" and creators must find roundabout ways to get paid for it, such as by stoking society's divisions for attention to monetize ad views.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#102
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IA's lending is not unlimited, even with the National Emergency Library. The books are still restricted by DRM, they do keep track of how many copies are out for each book, and they do monitor the system to prevent abuse. It's a real library lending system, nothing like what they do with actual public domain works.

>IA's lending is not unlimited, even with the National Emergency Library. I'm not debating with you about the details since I haven't used IA's system myself but the last time this came up, a commenter explained that there were a bunch of loopholes in IA's "limits" that it was effectively "unlimited". E.g. after the checkout period expires, you just check out the ebook again. Again, I don't know if this is true. EDIT…

Shockingly, at physical libraries you can also re-borrow a book if there's nobody on a waiting list for it.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#103

I am involved with a business that is attempting to do a lot of the same things that Internet Archive is doing. I think they do a lot of really good things, and I'm happy that they exist, but I believe they are on the wrong side in this matter. I don't know what they were thinking. I'd love to hear how they arrived at the decision to just brazenly flout copyright law like this. I fear that they have put a lot of thei…

They did it because the pandemic has closed libraries coast to coast, and it was a nice thing to do for people. Imagine that, making a decision not based on money or liability. I know, fuck them, right? /s

> They did it because the pandemic has closed libraries coast to coast, and it was a nice thing to do for people. Imagine that, making a decision not based on money or liability.

You mean a stupid one that endangers everything else you do, yes?

Robbing a bank and giving away the money is a decision not based on money or liability, but you shouldn't be very surprised you still get put in prison for it.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#104

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

In the UK publishers get paid when library users borrow a book through the Public Lending Right scheme.

https://www.bl.uk/plr

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#105

Why can't the publishing industry just hurry up and die? They provide fewer and fewer valuable services as the marginal cost of content distribution approaches zero and they just seem more like rent seekers.

As long as people conflate the last step's marginal cost with the amortized cost of making a thing that ends up in your hands, we're gonna be stuck arguing about this.

There are certainly expenses incurred by the publisher that have nothing to do with the physical articles.

It seems like the marginal cost of the "last step" cost is still a very significant component, though. High-touch sales channels, handling returns (consignment sales), and co-promotion expenses all seem tightly coupled to that "last step" and sales of physical articles.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#106
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that role is just waiting to be taken over by a kickstarter like model though.

As a self publisher who’s used Kickstarter for 4 books now, let me say: the creative side of writing the books, doing the layout, getting it print ready, coordinating with artists etc is a beast. Then when you add on the publisher side of distribution, fulfillment, lost orders, customer service, marketing etc you have a whole other beast. It’s manageable in the right circumstances, and pieces can be sort of automated…

It seems like a creator or their commissioned agent coordinating a disintermediated "supply chain" of service providers, with the creator retaining ownership of the intellectual property rights, could be a viable and lower-overhead alternative.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#108
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet Archive recently started "The Emergency Library" or something to that effect where they are now lending out unlimited books-- not limiting what and how much they lend out based on what they physically own as they did previously.

Okay that seems like pretty brazen copyright infringement then. That's crazy! Maybe they hope to disrupt the publishing industry, but really just sounds like a way to get sued.

It was. Some of us pointed this out at the time and got downvoted for saying that reality does not conform to "thing other HN posters would like."

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#110

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

If libraries weren't an ancient concept that preceeded copyright law they'd be illegal today.

A bit like mix tapes... Although many sites implemented the idea on the web. I need to mirror libgen while I still can.
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