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Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

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Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#51

Post by pandesmos »

munk-a wrote: post #15
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, so long as they offer pre-payment for books, they will remain in existence. Prolific and profitable authors benefit from being paid ahead of time for their work, which can often take months or years.

I feel like that role is just waiting to be taken over by a kickstarter like model though.

As a self publisher who’s used Kickstarter for 4 books now, let me say: the creative side of writing the books, doing the layout, getting it print ready, coordinating with artists etc is a beast.

Then when you add on the publisher side of distribution, fulfillment, lost orders, customer service, marketing etc you have a whole other beast.

It’s manageable in the right circumstances, and pieces can be sort of automated or out sourced, but (at least for me) the other grinds begin to absolutely kill my ability to do the creative work. And meanwhile fans are like “omg when’s the next book coming out?!?!?”

That’s said, I think the publishing “industry” needs to be ripped down and overhauled, but the work a publisher needs to do is very valuable and different than the creative needs.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#52

Post by falcolas »

Simon_says wrote: post #37
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, so long as they offer pre-payment for books, they will remain in existence. Prolific and profitable authors benefit from being paid ahead of time for their work, which can often take months or years.

That just sounds like a loan. Or venture capital.

It's an interest-free loan, marketing, distribution, proofreading, cover artists, typesetters, trademark dispute management, copyright dispute management, residual royalties.

So, yeah, it is similar to VC, and just like VC, they expect to profit off the transaction.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#53

Post by jasode »

saagarjha wrote: post #9

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

>I wonder how they feel about actual libraries, which make published works available for free to many people as well.

If we're talking about "digital" lending instead of physical books, the traditional libraries "play nice" with publishers by buying DRM ebooks and lending out a limited number of copies. This is what they mean by traditional public libraries being "participants in lawful copyright marketplace".

IA scanned books and unlimited lending circumvented all that.

In other words, publishers are ok with limited free lending on their own terms so that it doesn't drastically affect their book sales but they never agreed to IA's unlimited lending which is why they akin it to "piracy".

Not trying to play sides here but if you want to try to understand the nuance of the publishers' position, I'm trying to explain it in a neutral way.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#54

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

throwanem wrote: post #4

Even the press release doesn't do a good job supporting the infringement claim. They just baldly state IA isn't a real library and then hurry back to reiterate their infringement claims and talk about why infringement is bad, without ever actually explaining how IA's actions qualify as infringement. Looks like palming a card, to me.

Making unauthorized copies of copyrighted material is infringement. That is why you weren't allowed to photocopy entire books before electronic distribution was viable. IA isn't on solid ground here.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#55

Post by cortesoft »

saagarjha wrote: post #9

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

I am not saying I agree with their criticism of IA, but libraries are quite different.

Libraries pay for each copy of a book they have, and checkouts are limited to the number they own at a time. The IA doesn't pay at all, and there is no limit to how many people can access the content.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#56

Post by somebrody »

dehrmann wrote: post #41
EvanAnderson wrote: post #7

Why can't the publishing industry just hurry up and die? They provide fewer and fewer valuable services as the marginal cost of content distribution approaches zero and they just seem more like rent seekers.

> They provide fewer and fewer valuable services as the marginal cost of content distribution approaches zero I'd argue this makes their services more important to writers because when anyone can publish content, you have to work harder to stand out from the crowd.

> when anyone can publish content, you have to work harder to stand out from the crowd.

Anyone can publish to YouTube and you can see the likes, comments, and subscribes. Seems pretty easy to stand out.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#57

Post by StormChaser_5 »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #7

Why can't the publishing industry just hurry up and die? They provide fewer and fewer valuable services as the marginal cost of content distribution approaches zero and they just seem more like rent seekers.

As a self published author I have to say that the publishing industry is providing a huge service to me and the rest of the industry here.

The IA blatantly stole the work of thousands of people. They saw a problem and wanted to act - laudable. They could have done that be arranging to buy unique copies of each book they lent out. Or they could have tried to come to some agreement with the publishers. Or a bunch of other alternatives.

They didnt.

They stole the work and thankfully there is some players with enough clout in the market to do something about it.

If the big publishers ever do go away it will be a bad time for those like me who are never going to make enough revenue from our works to warrant a court proceeding while our works are stolen.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#58

Post by bedhesd »

munk-a wrote: post #15
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, so long as they offer pre-payment for books, they will remain in existence. Prolific and profitable authors benefit from being paid ahead of time for their work, which can often take months or years.

I feel like that role is just waiting to be taken over by a kickstarter like model though.

What do you think will drive the market towards that? In my city our bookstores are closing. Many individuals use tablet electronic-readers. Will it be the electronic books, or the demise of bookstores that drives a publishing industry revolution?

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#59

Post by GuB-42 »

munk-a wrote: post #15
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, so long as they offer pre-payment for books, they will remain in existence. Prolific and profitable authors benefit from being paid ahead of time for their work, which can often take months or years.

I feel like that role is just waiting to be taken over by a kickstarter like model though.

The difference is that publishers have professional editors that ensure a minimum level of quality.

Kickstarter is more about how good your pitch is.

In fact quality control is, I think, where publishers bring the most value today. Both in science and in the general case. Maybe the only one in the digital era.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#60

Post by user5994461 »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #18
saagarjha wrote: post #9

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

If libraries weren't an ancient concept that preceeded copyright law they'd be illegal today.

Libraries would be only illegal in the US though, because all these copyright issues are US specific.

Archive.org might as well rebase itself somewhere else.

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