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Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

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Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#21

Post by en4bz »

There's a reason this as filed in the southern district of NY [1]. IA will lose based on the results of the Redigi case. The court found that in the case of a digital phonorecord that the "tangible medium" was the hard drive of the device it was downloaded to. Thus if you want to resell an MP3 you need to sell your hard drive. You can't just copy it to someone else's and then delete it. Any copy other than the original was found to be an illegal copy.

They never even looked at First Sale Doctrine which is a possible defense in this type of dispute.

If you translate this too books then the book itself is the tangible medium. Scans are infringing copies and only valid for personal use.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records,_LLC_v._ReDigi...

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#22

Post by mrgalaxy »

TylerE wrote: post #8
mrgalaxy wrote: post #5

It seems like Internet Archive's sites are just the digital versions of a normal library. Is there something I'm missing here? Are these publishers going to go after all libraries? Or is this more about the content being digital?

In a normal library, they have to obtain one copy for each copy checked out.

Oh I guess I kind of assumed that was what they were doing, although I guess I didn't explicitly see that anywhere. If they really do lend more copies then they've purchased then IA is pretty clearly in the wrong.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#23

Post by d4rti »

falcolas wrote: post #17
mrgalaxy wrote: post #5

It seems like Internet Archive's sites are just the digital versions of a normal library. Is there something I'm missing here? Are these publishers going to go after all libraries? Or is this more about the content being digital?

Normal libraries have to pay quite a bit of money to participate in the digital world - purchasing the right to lend out an ebook, and only being able to distribute the book some 30-50 times before having to re-purchase the rights. The IA is not paying these fees, and so there's some copyright questions around the distribution rights of scans of legitimate purchases to be answered.

There is no reason that these should be seperate rights to buying an ebook, once.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#24

Post by falcolas »

munk-a wrote: post #15
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, so long as they offer pre-payment for books, they will remain in existence. Prolific and profitable authors benefit from being paid ahead of time for their work, which can often take months or years.

I feel like that role is just waiting to be taken over by a kickstarter like model though.

It is happening (I recently got a kickstarted atlas of Mars - how fricking cool is that?!). But then the authors also have to do their own marketing and promotion, another care taken over by the publishers for these few authors.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#26

Post by mrgalaxy »

veonik wrote: post #6
mrgalaxy wrote: post #5

It seems like Internet Archive's sites are just the digital versions of a normal library. Is there something I'm missing here? Are these publishers going to go after all libraries? Or is this more about the content being digital?

The Internet Archive recently started "The Emergency Library" or something to that effect where they are now lending out unlimited books-- not limiting what and how much they lend out based on what they physically own as they did previously.

Okay that seems like pretty brazen copyright infringement then. That's crazy! Maybe they hope to disrupt the publishing industry, but really just sounds like a way to get sued.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#27

Post by ikeboy »

en4bz wrote: post #21

There's a reason this as filed in the southern district of NY [1]. IA will lose based on the results of the Redigi case. The court found that in the case of a digital phonorecord that the "tangible medium" was the hard drive of the device it was downloaded to. Thus if you want to resell an MP3 you need to sell your hard drive. You can't just copy it to someone else's and then delete it. Any copy other than the origin…

Note that it was upheld on appeal, and so is precedent for the entire second circuit.

However, I think this may be different. Defendant is a non-profit and isn't reselling anything.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#28

Post by wodenokoto »

saagarjha wrote: post #9

> Despite the self-serving library branding of its operations, IA’s conduct bears little resemblance to the trusted role that thousands of American libraries play within their communities and as participants in the lawful copyright marketplace. IA scans books from cover to cover, posts complete digital files to its website, and solicits users to access them for free by signing up for Internet Archive Accounts. I wond…

I’m surprised this hasn’t happened earlier.

Say what you want about the current copyright system, but buying a single book and lending it out one at a time and buying a new one when it wears out, is obviously different than handing out unlimited digital copies.

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#29

Post by VonGuard »

pontifier wrote: post #11

I am involved with a business that is attempting to do a lot of the same things that Internet Archive is doing. I think they do a lot of really good things, and I'm happy that they exist, but I believe they are on the wrong side in this matter. I don't know what they were thinking. I'd love to hear how they arrived at the decision to just brazenly flout copyright law like this. I fear that they have put a lot of thei…

They did it because the pandemic has closed libraries coast to coast, and it was a nice thing to do for people. Imagine that, making a decision not based on money or liability.

I know, fuck them, right? /s

Re: Publishers File Suit Against Internet Archive

#30

Post by falcolas »

d4rti wrote: post #23
falcolas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal libraries have to pay quite a bit of money to participate in the digital world - purchasing the right to lend out an ebook, and only being able to distribute the book some 30-50 times before having to re-purchase the rights. The IA is not paying these fees, and so there's some copyright questions around the distribution rights of scans of legitimate purchases to be answered.

There is no reason that these should be seperate rights to buying an ebook, once.

There is a reason: Profit.

Is it a good and moral reason? Not in my opinion. But it is a reason.

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