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Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

health.ucdavis.edu

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Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#161

Post by JimmyRuska »

JacksonGariety wrote: post #18

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

* Listen and be interested. Many people just respond with their own anecdotes, but people really do appreciate it when you listen to them and mirror their emotions on the topics, ask them questions and allow them to express their narrative. Being able share an experience with someone makes it easier to bond. When people are always turning the focus back to themselves, especially in a way that can negate, one-up, argue, try to solve, or dismiss, the intended emotions, it can end up draining.

* The kids that were probably more heavily on the spectrum in school seemed they got teased often. They were targetted for being very defensive. Simple things become heated emotional arguments and especially when things are taken personally. The more someone would react emotionally, the more bullies would use them as a target. If something doesn't make sense, doesn't seem correct, or could have a negative connotation, it's best to not react with negative emotions immediately. Sometimes this is just part of word play or sarcasm that just isn't caught. Give the benefit of the doubt and try to clarify. Avoid arguing, and avoid people or statements that are just trying to get an emotional response, the actual things they say are just a mechanism to trigger that.

* Catch up with people and see where they're at, try to understand what their goals and challenges are and how it's been evolving. Ask them about things they're passionate about and what's new in that space. Remember to think of them when you come across something they may find interesting. You may be passionate about things they're completely uninterested in and it may be worthwhile to skip those if you don't feel much resonance on particular topics. Try to find activities where you can both be really engaged.

In general, show you care about people, teach them, help them reach their goals, be there for them when they need someone to listen. Fire your friends if they don't show some reciprocation, are always negative; self obsessed; pity seeking; complaining, only contact you when they want to offload, etc.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#162

Post by pitdicker »

valuearb wrote: post #76
kstenerud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sort of the problem. I don't have a solid baseline to work against. I observe certain behaviors like facial expressions (smiling convincingly is especially difficult), discussions about irrelevant things (except that they serve a social function), looking into someone's eyes (very difficult), certain postures that have meaning (you're bored, you're angry, you're... something) . It's a lot to keep straight in y…

Eyes! Eyes! Is what I tell my 13 year old daughter. But she is far more comfortable looking away while in conversation. The theory that has resonated most with me is that both facial interpretations and language processing are very cerebral processor intensive. Turning off your facial tracking algorithm by looking away frees more brain nodes to help with processing and thinking about what you are hearing and saying.…

A very computer-centric theory ;-). I think it has some merit, but there can be more factors.

I've also had the eye looking problem, and yes, it was uncomfortable and harder to concentrate. But now it I'm around 30 it has become quite natural. Not a parent, but what I imagine might help besides 'just trying to do it' is seeing the use and fun of eye contact:

* Explain eye contact helps people understand you are interested in them. Of course hopefully you have some real, friendly interest in someone ;-). Friendly listening to someone and looking at them is a good step to getting more familiar/friends.

* Maybe help her recognize more of the expressions in and around the eyes. It is a very interesting part of the face. And you don't have to look someone exactly in the eye to see most of it... Besides angry/sad/happy, what are the little signs that show someone is becoming irritated, lost interest or getting bored, is thinking, is messing with you, disagrees (but maybe too polite to tell), etc. Recognizing it in movies, and possibly imitating the expressions can also be a 'safer' step.

* It works two ways. You let others see more of you by looking them in the eyes. You have to open up in a way, can get more self-conscious, and thus uncomfortable. Looking someone in the eyes can make them trust you more, helps them see your intentions, if you really mean what you say, that you know what you are saying... But you may just want to start opening up some more with people you already feel comfortable with.

Still, eye contact is culture dependent. For me, what helped me were these motivations, and that I forced myself to have on estimate 100+ little wel-intentioned conversations with strangers per week (Jehovah's Witness).

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#163

Post by vmception »

kstenerud wrote: post #14
scandox wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well unfortunately there are people that can perfectly conceal their true feelings and intentions. Perhaps they are the ones that you need to interview. Though I suppose by definition they won't be very forthcoming.

That's actually an interesting topic in itself. It's been observed that many sociopaths and psychopaths don't spend long on one person. I wonder if it's because they eventually give off enough tells that others start to notice...

Some of my business partners are sociopaths and psychopaths. (Despite the various people that will clarify the difference, I feel like these are not mutually exclusive terms.)

Sometimes they want to do fraudulent things and are obviously willing to implicate others and I just steer them away and give them another option. I think they like that they are spotted but not shunned.

Or maybe I'm a mark to them, or maybe I'm a sociopath too. To the top of society you say? That's the plan..

But they aren't retreating because they've been found out. I just point out how the legitimate way is actually more lucrative.

(ie. maybe they want a commission deal on an impossible financial product that a client is interested in because the risks haven't been disclosed, I tell them we can offer a legitimate financial product with 2% management fees and 20% of profits and make way more money)

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#164

Post by cameronsr »

valuearb wrote: post #76
kstenerud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sort of the problem. I don't have a solid baseline to work against. I observe certain behaviors like facial expressions (smiling convincingly is especially difficult), discussions about irrelevant things (except that they serve a social function), looking into someone's eyes (very difficult), certain postures that have meaning (you're bored, you're angry, you're... something) . It's a lot to keep straight in y…

Eyes! Eyes! Is what I tell my 13 year old daughter. But she is far more comfortable looking away while in conversation. The theory that has resonated most with me is that both facial interpretations and language processing are very cerebral processor intensive. Turning off your facial tracking algorithm by looking away frees more brain nodes to help with processing and thinking about what you are hearing and saying.…

As someone who is. You don't get more efficient in that manner. You can get efficient in other ways. But there's no breaking the laws of physics, biology, or the wiring you were born with.

What you describe happens to me especially in groups. My trick is to pick a point slightly off - their forehead, a little to the side, a random visible point just past them - and focus there. It's almost imperceptible to most especially if they're caught up in the convo, and allows me to process. Sometimes in a long convo, I may have to change my focus point multiple times. It takes practice, and you only get that actually talking to people.

Another thing to keep in mind depending on severity. Depending on her niche (the 1 or 2 things her brain specializes in) social interaction over an extended period will make her mentally tired. In a large group, this can happen exponentially.

I do okay one on one. Or in groups of up to half a dozen or so. However, I built my coping mechanisms over 30+ years. Even then, I have to pace myself, for example if I am at a party. I've spoken to large groups before as part of my day work and volunteer work. 2-4 hours at a party or 20-60 minutes in front of 100+ people, and I am exhausted. This is because the part of the brain I'm using for that task in me wasn't built for that.

If you want an analogy, imagine the hardware bits of a computer for an analogy of my brain. Now imagine all the parts are wired together differently from the standard architecture of such a system. The GPU is being used for CPU tasks, so other part is being used for a purpose not originally designed, and so on. The OS has been written to compensate for the architecture change but there's no documentation and the person who wrote it has vanished. Topper, the video and audio outputs instead of going to a monitor and speaker are hooked instead to a blender full of margarita mix. Basically, that's my life.

That doesn't mean she can't make friends and have a fulfilling life. It doesn't mean she doesn't feel as much as others. If anything, my emotions are probably more intense than a lot of folks. Aggravated by not being able to express them effectively. The friends you do make and keep mean that much more, especially if they know what you are. If also means she may feel her failure to keep some friends more deeply. I have kept friends through adulthood and a war or two. I've also lost some and I will never stop missing that particular part of my soul.

Try the slightly off focus point trick, give it time and practice.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#165

Post by cameronsr »

JacksonGariety wrote: post #18

I have high-functioning autism. Does anyone have some suggestions for making and keeping friends? When I meet a friend, things seem to go really well at first, and then my friend seems to slowly get bored of the interactions we have, and after a couple months I just don't hear from them again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there a scientific way to find out?

No. Only trial and error. Most of those I've hung on to the longest didn't know what I was until years later. Though they knew I was different than most people.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#166

Post by lilyball »

kstenerud wrote: post #3

> The study also found that IQ had a significant relationship with change in symptom severity. Children with higher IQs were more likely to show a reduction in ASD symptoms. This is important information. People of higher intelligence would be more likely to learn things, such as how to mask effectively. I learned to mask so well that most people are shocked to learn that I'm autistic. It takes about 6 months of cons…

I learned how to mask so effectively that I didn’t even realize I’m autistic until literally a few weeks ago (I’m in my 30s). It doesn’t help that the pop culture idea of autism is really what’s often called “boy autism”[1] and “girl autism” is a lot more subtle. I’m trying to dismantle some of my masking now, because it feels a hell of a lot better to stop suppressing my natural inclinations and it’s helping me deal with my social anxiety.

[1]: Note: “boy autism” and “girl autism” are really misnomers, “boy autism” can occur in girls and “girl autism” can occur in boys.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#167

Post by globular-toast »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #74
globular-toast wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty autistic, but the funny thing is I don't keep friendships because I get bored, not them. I was a complete recluse during most of my time at university. I decided I wanted to mate with women when I was about 25 so started to make myself more "marketable". The first stage is being able to make friends. First thing is the way you look. People like you more if you're good looking. First step is to make sure yo…

>You might think this sounds silly // Not wanting to offend but "sociopathic" is the word that comes to mind for me. Like "I'll do this to manipulate people and induce this response". I'm not going to say you won't be successful, just that your approach sounds very clinical and lacking in warmth and personality. You do you, I guess.

Don't worry, you can't offend me. Lacking "warmth" is my personality. It's just who I am. This isn't about being fake, it's just about explicitly learning things which other people seem to "just know".

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#168

Post by [deleted] »

kstenerud wrote: post #151
glitchc wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am sorry to hear that they dislike you. At the risk of sounding extremely insensitive, can you share more? I ask because I'm mildly Asperger's myself.

I'm not really sure what else there is to share. It generally goes like this: - I meet someone, or start a new job, or some such thing. - People are friendly and everything seems fine for about 6 months to a year. After that, things get weird quickly, like they throw a switch or something. Either one person starts saying rude things to me and the rest either sit back or join in, or a group of soon-to-be-ex-friends ga…

[deleted]

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#169

Post by chownie »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #17

my son had a couple of very annoying years between 4-7 where he would seem behind compared to other kids on certain things such as motor skills and physical (hand/leg) coordination. he was also huge for his age, like trapped in a larger child's body. when it was time to send him to school our neighbors who knew him (because he hung out with their kid) suggested to send him to an IQ test because they figured he might…

I disagree with a lot of what you've written.

Occupational therapists and nurses are not qualified to diagnose autism and there certainly is a "somewhere on the spectrum" vaguery to autistic symptoms. If I recall correctly only 15% of autistic people fall under the banner of "high support needs", these are the people who are obviously autistic. Many of these people also have another learning disability (undiagnosed or not) which obfuscates the severity of their autism somewhat.

The remaining 85% are much less obvious. A lot of these people aren't even aware that they're autistic. These are the people that are "somewhere on the spectrum" and they all have widely varying support needs.

My parents had no idea I was autistic, at no point did any school suggest an autism diagnosis. I left school with two C grades and nothing else, because I was struggling with undiagnosed autism and thus received zero support.

When you are in this situation it's gutwrenching. I had no inclination I was autistic at the time because I had that same false belief that autism is only the severe cases. So instead I assumed I was just incapable of doing the same things as other people. This caused severe depression and a lot of imposter syndrome.

You don't need to put your child on medication (there aren't any for autism anyway) but avoiding diagnosis seems reckless to me.

My parent's avoidance to diagnose lead to unnecessary hardship and horrible uncertainties, it was only through going to therapy at 26 (mandated by my workplace due to autistic symptoms) that I was eventially diagnosed. This is a common refrain, plenty of autistic people fall through the cracks and don't get diagnosed until well into adulthood.

Re: Autism severity can change substantially during early childhood, study suggests

#170

Post by chownie »

stretchwithme wrote: post #153

I've read recently that supplementing zinc and sulforaphane can help autism. Is there any truth to that? Anyone have personal experience trying either?

n=1 obviously

I take a multivitamin with 15mg zinc in it, as far as I can tell none of the autism specific symptoms are affected. The biggest difference is that I feel sleepy in the afternoons when I take zinc, when I don't take it I feel more awake but less rested.

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