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Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

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Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#101

Post by paulryanrogers »

trixie_ wrote: post #90
7thaccount wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly impressive, but you have to take into account both more modern technology, as well as the fact that they were able to build off the shoulders of giants. It is still amazing of course, but I doubt they could've done the same thing during the era of the mercury program, so not really apples to apples comparison.

Maybe not during Mercury, but definitely during the 70s all the technology was there to build a cheap, reusable rocket and capsule. The dream was that the shuttle could be that system, but it did not turn out that way. And giving in to the 'sunk cost fallacy' they supported the shuttle for the next 40 years. Arguably you could say we are 50 years behind where we should be. Unfortunately driving down costs is probably…

Didn't Space X also benefit from NASA launch facilities? I imagine their payroll also includes quite a few NASA trained people too. They certainly aren't doing rocket science from scratch or in a vacuum.

Not too say this isn't a big deal. Just that it's not all Elon and his wunderkind.

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#102

Post by toomuchtodo »

holyDictionary wrote: post #76
bane wrote: post #15

SpaceX runs basically as a giant R&D program that also happens to accomplish useful things as byproducts of its approach (with the miracle of insurance to cover costs if things get explody). Every flight is data for incremental improvement. If you think of all SpaceX has ever done was try to get to this point, with somewhere around 80 flights on the Falcon 9, but for a variety of mission buyers (NASA, USAF, Commercia…

> a single company that started a decade ago as a side project for a guy who was trying to make electric cars after making money on the internet. I believe this is backwards, SpaceX was created first and it was implied in the biography that it's more as if Tesla was the side project.

Tesla was a hostile takeover by Musk who was already an investor (arguably the largest/primary investor), as existing leadership was not focused on getting revenue in the door fast enough for the org to survive (circa 2007).

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-fired-tesla-ce...

Disclaimer: Long time TSLA investor

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#103

Post by ta17711771 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #101
trixie_ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not during Mercury, but definitely during the 70s all the technology was there to build a cheap, reusable rocket and capsule. The dream was that the shuttle could be that system, but it did not turn out that way. And giving in to the 'sunk cost fallacy' they supported the shuttle for the next 40 years. Arguably you could say we are 50 years behind where we should be. Unfortunately driving down costs is probably…

Didn't Space X also benefit from NASA launch facilities? I imagine their payroll also includes quite a few NASA trained people too. They certainly aren't doing rocket science from scratch or in a vacuum. Not too say this isn't a big deal. Just that it's not all Elon and his wunderkind.

Some are meant to teach, others are meant to do.

NASA and their bureaucracy have been sliding out of the "do" category for some time.

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#104

Post by NikolaeVarius »

landa wrote: post #85
moftz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little in terms of what you would consider AI or ML. It's a lot of trig and control theory. You do a lot of the math beforehand to figure out the script the craft will follow to reach the ISS. Once it gets close, you either use manual controls or let autopilot do the docking. The autopilot is basically looking some dots on a camera and firing the thrusters to make the dots line up right. It's more like a dumb PI…

What you wrote is what I would have guessed . Are you also guessing or do you know for sure? It sounds right, but I'm very curious about the actual answer to this question.

No one is putting non deterministic code anywhere near one of the most expensive objects ever produced

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#105

Post by crocal »

bane wrote: post #15

SpaceX runs basically as a giant R&D program that also happens to accomplish useful things as byproducts of its approach (with the miracle of insurance to cover costs if things get explody). Every flight is data for incremental improvement. If you think of all SpaceX has ever done was try to get to this point, with somewhere around 80 flights on the Falcon 9, but for a variety of mission buyers (NASA, USAF, Commercia…

Did it really cost only 5B$ to get there? I just ask because if confirmed it’s unbelievably cheap. I am /stunned/.

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#106

Post by [deleted] »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #101
trixie_ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not during Mercury, but definitely during the 70s all the technology was there to build a cheap, reusable rocket and capsule. The dream was that the shuttle could be that system, but it did not turn out that way. And giving in to the 'sunk cost fallacy' they supported the shuttle for the next 40 years. Arguably you could say we are 50 years behind where we should be. Unfortunately driving down costs is probably…

Didn't Space X also benefit from NASA launch facilities? I imagine their payroll also includes quite a few NASA trained people too. They certainly aren't doing rocket science from scratch or in a vacuum. Not too say this isn't a big deal. Just that it's not all Elon and his wunderkind.

[deleted]

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#107

Post by gpm »

crocal wrote: post #105
bane wrote: post #15

SpaceX runs basically as a giant R&D program that also happens to accomplish useful things as byproducts of its approach (with the miracle of insurance to cover costs if things get explody). Every flight is data for incremental improvement. If you think of all SpaceX has ever done was try to get to this point, with somewhere around 80 flights on the Falcon 9, but for a variety of mission buyers (NASA, USAF, Commercia…

Did it really cost only 5B$ to get there? I just ask because if confirmed it’s unbelievably cheap. I am /stunned/.

There's also been a few (2 to 3) billion in stock based financing. I think that the 5b estimate sounds right order of magnitude.

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#108

Post by blueblisters »

cletus wrote: post #39

So when seeing this I had two questions, one of which I've found the answer to, one of which still remains a mystery. 1. Why only two astronauts? and 2. How much is Crew Dragon costing? For (1), it's stated [1] that Crew Dragon has a capacity of seven astronauts but only 4 for NASA? How does that work? Does that mean the NASA configuration only has 4 seats? I found this [2] saying seats 1 and 4 were empty. Why not 4…

Yeah the per astronaut cost will still keep human spaceflight an R&D and tourism project. I, for one, was hoping we would get to see some things being done in space that are currently too expensive on earth (like superclean vacuums) or need microgravity.

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#109

Post by toshk »

bane wrote: post #15

SpaceX runs basically as a giant R&D program that also happens to accomplish useful things as byproducts of its approach (with the miracle of insurance to cover costs if things get explody). Every flight is data for incremental improvement. If you think of all SpaceX has ever done was try to get to this point, with somewhere around 80 flights on the Falcon 9, but for a variety of mission buyers (NASA, USAF, Commercia…

Incredible.

Also Tesla seems to be extremely focused on r&d.

How does Elon Musk push and run his organisations so differently that he seems to be one of the only few, if not only one, capable of running big organisations that are able to accomplish this extreme level of innovation paired with tangible results?

Re: Crew Dragon Docks with ISS

#110

Post by arminiusreturns »

toshk wrote: post #109
bane wrote: post #15

SpaceX runs basically as a giant R&D program that also happens to accomplish useful things as byproducts of its approach (with the miracle of insurance to cover costs if things get explody). Every flight is data for incremental improvement. If you think of all SpaceX has ever done was try to get to this point, with somewhere around 80 flights on the Falcon 9, but for a variety of mission buyers (NASA, USAF, Commercia…

Incredible. Also Tesla seems to be extremely focused on r&d. How does Elon Musk push and run his organisations so differently that he seems to be one of the only few, if not only one, capable of running big organisations that are able to accomplish this extreme level of innovation paired with tangible results?

I think of it like this. It requires massive amounts of money to do the types of things we are talking about, but when the other big players have gotten so used to suckling at the teet of the military industrial complex and it's wars, and comfortable in that utterly corrupt cycle, Musk was a man with a narrow focus to "get shit done" much more than "line the C's and boards pockets" .
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