Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment • Hacker News Board

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#101

Post by Someone1234 » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

aeyes wrote: post #92

paulryanrogers wrote: post #42

For those still on Oracle, why? Is it regulations or executives demanding certified solutions? And if so then with so many bugs at what point does certification become a negative signal?

- query hints - planner hints - better statistics (including ways to manually create statistics) - no vacuum - automatic planner adjustment when true cost was off - better planning for prepared statements - active-active clustering with RAC - vendor support for running on SAN including snapshots - usable query analysis tools provided by the vendor (pg_stat_statements alone doesn't cut it) - datapump much faster than…

Several of these are "features" exist to fix broken parts of Oracle (like query/planner hints, planner adjustment, etc). Officially (per Oracle) the planner should be good enough so you never need to use a hint, but realistically all of these are "features" because the built-in systems aren't good.

So, granted, other databases don't have Oracle's hacks to fix their broken stuff but I'm not sure why that is an argument FOR using Oracle rather than AGAINST. Hints are fragile hacks.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#102

Post by shoulderfake » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #67

ethbro wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publish benchmarks as an LLC, then just go ahead and declare bankruptcy.

This is a very dangerous advice to follow in general.

expand on that

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#103

Post by paulryanrogers » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #89

devit wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's likely that you ever really need query hints. Even if updating analyses, creating indices, changing the query, etc. fails, you can always either use CTEs or temporary tables, or use a stored procedure that manually iterates over results to implement whatever strategy is desired. It might be more time consuming than having query hints, although this is compensated by the fact that almost always quer…

> It might be more time consuming than having query hints The queries in question can't be allowed to get any slower than they already are. They bottleneck certain critical uses.

Do query hints lock in the implementation though? I imagine that DB upgrades could have different performance characteristics both with and without hints.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#104

Post by makapuf » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

speedgoose wrote: post #56

phoe-krk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that something is unenforceable is a poor way of stopping rich lawyer-based companies, such as Oracle, from attempting to enforce it nonetheless.

You can do like what Videolan is doing for VLC: the president reply to the lawyers that they have no power there.

Can you elaborate? Do you have a source?

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#105

Post by aidos » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

phoe-krk wrote: post #3

Copying from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12115397/is-it-against-l... : The standard license ( http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/licenses/standard-license-... ) you agree to when you download software from the Oracle Technology Network (OTN) does state that you're not allowed to disclose benchmarks. You may not: > - disclose results of any program benchmark tests without our prior consent. I sadly suspect that…

Are these benchmarks? Installation time (30m to create a dB! That can’t be right?!) doesn’t really feel like it falls under that umbrella.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#106

Post by jeswin » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

I've used plenty of Oracle; it's a poor choice (probably the worst) for organisations of any size. People buy Oracle in large corporations because that's what their leaders and their team know, and it helps them stay relevant in the company. Especially in places where daily work is more about engaging in office politics than dealing with technology.

And the other one is bribing. From mild to criminal, involving payments via vendors to decision makers - http://allthingsd.com/20120816/oracle-settles-sec-bribery-ca...

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#107

Post by BossingAround » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

We could sum up the post as:

"I don't like Oracle DB because:

- "Takes up more space

- "Is slower to start/stop/init

- "Is not free

- "Has bugs"

Umm... Sure, Oracle's slower to start/stop. Sure, it takes up more space. So what though?

And then, "it has a lot of bugs and that causes downtime." Would be great to list some examples. All software has bugs.

Why is this on the front page? Does it have any value what so ever other than "someone found a free alternative to Oracle DB"..?

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#108

Post by pas » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

aidos wrote: post #105

phoe-krk wrote: post #3

Copying from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12115397/is-it-against-l... : The standard license ( http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/licenses/standard-license-... ) you agree to when you download software from the Oracle Technology Network (OTN) does state that you're not allowed to disclose benchmarks. You may not: > - disclose results of any program benchmark tests without our prior consent. I sadly suspect that…

Are these benchmarks? Installation time (30m to create a dB! That can’t be right?!) doesn’t really feel like it falls under that umbrella.

No, that's about right. Oracle DB is seriously that bad.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#109

Post by touisteur » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #31

The real surprising part of this benchmark to me is how quick it was to compile PgSQL from source. Is it pure C? Of course, building a DB is not something you worry too much everyday (unless you're developing it), but it seems an interesting fact.

Can confirm it builds very fast, including extensions. And on many-core machines it scales quite a bit (make -j64)...

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL – A Comment

#110

Post by quietbritishjim » Sat, May 30, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #82

phoe-krk wrote: post #3

Copying from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12115397/is-it-against-l... : The standard license ( http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/licenses/standard-license-... ) you agree to when you download software from the Oracle Technology Network (OTN) does state that you're not allowed to disclose benchmarks. You may not: > - disclose results of any program benchmark tests without our prior consent. I sadly suspect that…

People are scared of corporations, but they don't really have much ability to damage you. They can't cause physical harm to your body. They can't take away your loved ones. All they can do is take some money. You started life with $0, so you can probably make it all back. It would be inconvenient, but not an existential crisis. The likeliest outcome is that nothing will happen. The second most likely outcome is that…

Your first paragraph is totally ridiculous. Maybe you started with $0, but maybe that was 30 years ago and losing all your savings from then till now, including your home, is more than an inconvenience. If you have dependants then that loss could directly impact their lives and especially their education – what if some of that money had been for a college fund? In the US especially, and also to some extent in Europe, having less money affects what medical care you can afford, so it actually can cause physical harm. At the extreme end of things admittedly, these changes could put strain on relationships which could even mean you really do lose loved ones.

I actually do agree it's unlikely that Oracle will follow through with their implied threat, but let's not pretend that their threat is meaningless.