The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#31

Post by groby_b » Sat, May 30, 2020, 4:43 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #21

groby_b wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of the US police is firmly rooted in slave patrols, so your suspicion is pretty much spot on.

That is wrong. Police forces originated in North, where slavery was outlawed. Slave patrols were not formed until nearly 70 years later. https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/history-policing-united...

Did you bother to actually, you know, READ the article you shared?

"It was not until the 1830s that the idea of a centralized municipal police department first emerged in the United States" vs. ". The first formal slave patrol was created in the Carolina colonies in 1704"

Slave patrols predate municipal police departments by 100+ years.

And for additional clarity, let's draw the link:

" Following the Civil War, these vigilante-style organizations evolved in modern Southern police departments primarily as a means of controlling freed slaves who were now laborers working in an agricultural caste system, and enforcing "Jim Crow" segregation laws, designed to deny freed slaves equal rights and access to the political system."

You're right in that northern police forces were more interested in protecting mercantile interests. And that's where we get the core functions of our police system: Protect the interests of the moneyed class (north) and suppress minorities (south)

But citing this article as evidence that US police isn't rooted in slave patrols is... bold choice, Cotton.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#32

Post by dang » Sat, May 30, 2020, 7:46 AM UTC

every_time_6m wrote: post #15

Why is my comment flagged? Is the only allowed take on this to be that blacks are always innocent angels and police are bloodthirsty thugs roaming the streets looking for sweet, pure saints to murder for no reason?

We've banned this account. You can't do race war on HN.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#33

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, May 30, 2020, 8:03 AM UTC

erentz wrote: post #25

raincom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

They have half of Congress at the moment, holding a majority in the House by the way. They could pass a bill right now addressing anything (pick your favorite issue that is broadly supported by the Democrat voter base) and send it to the Senate to be debated. Yet they don't. People need to wrap their head around the possibility that Democrat party leadership doesn't actually agree with their "base" on the issues, the…

> They could pass a bill right now addressing anything (pick your favorite issue that is broadly supported by the Democrat voter base) and send it to the Senate to be debated.

The word you are looking for is “ignored without hearings, debate, or votes”, not “debated”.

> People need to wrap their head around the possibility that Democrat party leadership doesn't actually agree with their "base" on the issues, they just pretend to.

The Democratic Party leadership agrees almost entirely with the base of the faction that has dominated the Party for the past ~25 years, the center-right neoliberal faction whose powerbase was in the conservative (compared to the party mainstream) Democratic Leadership Council — openly founded in the 1980s to reverse the progressive direction of the Democratic Party — before it took over the party apparatus rendering the DLC itself superfluous.

It's not a secret to anyone in the party, whether in the progressive or neoliberal faction, that those two factions have a deep and abiding conflict of values and are only, when their relationship is at its strongest, in an uneasy alliance of necessity against the Republican Party and the far right.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#34

Post by dang » Sat, May 30, 2020, 8:07 AM UTC

2019-nCoV wrote: post #28

Where were the riots after white woman Justine Damond was brutally killed by a black police officer in Minneapolis just a few years back? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond

You've been flaming up a storm on HN. That's against the rules and I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#35

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, May 30, 2020, 8:11 AM UTC

raincom wrote: post #13

rcurry wrote: post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

> I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face?

They have, especially when the progressive wing of the Party was more dominant, but even some since. The Obama DoJ was no slouch on police accountability, something Trump and incoming AG Sessions were positively giddy about ending in 2017.

It's a long list of problems, though, and the US system is deliberately designed with a large number of veto points to prevent lasting radical course corrections from being easy to implement even with a transitory majority.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#36

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, May 30, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #7

wpietri wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's reasonable. I strongly recommend Kendi's booked "Stamped from the Beginning", which is basically a history of racist ideas. One of the things that's really striking about it is the extent to which the ideas commonly in circulation are ones useful to the powerful. One clear example from the book is the various theories of natural inferiority. During long periods when white slavery of Africans was common…

The history of the US police is firmly rooted in slave patrols, so your suspicion is pretty much spot on.

> The history of the US police is firmly rooted in slave patrols,

American professional police forces actually have their more direct origins in ethnic gangs given state sanction to control other ethnic gangs in the urban north, as that's what the first official local police forces were, though southern slave patrols were around earlier, evolved into police forces in the south, and played a significant role in the further development of national policing norms.

Of course, both the northern and southern influences contribute to why both racism and warrior (as opposed to guardian) mindset are deeply entrenched in American policing.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#37

Post by alex_s93 » Sat, May 30, 2020, 11:25 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #32

every_time_6m wrote: post #15

Why is my comment flagged? Is the only allowed take on this to be that blacks are always innocent angels and police are bloodthirsty thugs roaming the streets looking for sweet, pure saints to murder for no reason?

We've banned this account. You can't do race war on HN.

[flagged]

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#38

Post by wpietri » Sat, May 30, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #21

groby_b wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of the US police is firmly rooted in slave patrols, so your suspicion is pretty much spot on.

That is wrong. Police forces originated in North, where slavery was outlawed. Slave patrols were not formed until nearly 70 years later. https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/history-policing-united...

If you think the North's lack of slavery means a lack of officially supported anti-black violence, you should think again. Loewen's Sundown Towns documents widespread ethnic cleansing across the US in the 1890-1920 period. Prominent examples include the Tulsa Race Massacre, but in smaller places than Tulsa they had an easier time of it.

Then as white flight took hold in the 1950s, there are plenty of examples of anti-black state violence. Especially when newly-created all-white suburbs and towns were eager to kick out any black people who might want to move in.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#39

Post by raincom » Sun, May 31, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #35

raincom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

> I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? They have, especially when the progressive wing of the Party was more dominant, but even some since. The Obama DoJ was no slouch on police accountability, something Trump and incoming AG Sessions were positively giddy about ending in 2017. It's a long list of problems, though, and the US system…

Executive discretion doesn't work, as another administration comes along and changes rules. Legislative fix works better than executive fixes in the long run.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#40

Post by dang » Sun, May 31, 2020, 3:48 AM UTC

alex_s93 wrote: post #37

dang wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account. You can't do race war on HN.

[flagged]

You should go elsewhere, because prosecuting race war on HN is against both the site guidelines and the spirit of curiosity that we want to animate this place.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html