Live data from Hacker News

The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

smithsonianmag.com

11–20 of 42 posts

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#11
The following enters into the OP's link somewhat sideways, but in an important way I think.

There's an old 60's analogy attributed to Fritz Pearls: you can touch the menu; you can read the menu; you can lick the menu; you can eat the menu. But you didn't each the meal. That is, let's not confuse the model of experience with experience.

Extending that analogy I cannot argue that my life experience is similar, equivalent, or exchangeable with African Americans because I haven't lived their experience under, say, American police. Still I am concerned that if this analogy is taken too far, there will arise an insuperable gap that will work against binding each party into the whole we seek or ought to be seeking.

Our -- or THE - American Constitution sets forth equality among us all regardless of creed, color, sex, or religion, but when some of us go to the restaurant we aren't served or, worse, there's no food and no kitchen for us. America is not living up to the goal despite having fine goals. I recall Cornel West saying civil rights was due not because the Blacks wanted a piece of the pie -- a backhanded reference to government handouts for undeserving people -- but because preferential treatment based on color was never part of the deal. There's no white guilt at play here anymore than there's handouts going on.

So, let's be clear: violating civil rights is morally, ethically wrong. And all the more when it's perpetrated by sections of society that have greater power, money, and institutional agency. And all the more when cops are supposed to hold the line on justice. Justice is the good line: if you're on the wrong side, you should have to pay in the criminal or civil penalty. And if you're on the right side then all to the good. Either way, then, there's no room to take offense.

As I understand it the cop with the knee on the throat of a handcuffed black man was finally charged. Well, big deal: it took them long enough to get to the stunningly obvious. I am hoping the FED charges will follow. And then civil charges. There's also the issue of the other officers on the scene and whatever games were played by the DA and its affiliates.

Hackernews is primarily about technology, tech corporations, and business. However, let's over master the lesson so that we realize the ultimate money lesson with plenty of banked savings to boot: money is not the measurement of all things. We can and must insist there's equality under the law for each and everyone of us. Let's all work to make sure there's enforceable norms which is also, beyond income, an important piece of security for us and our families.

I have kids; I know why their skin color is like mine. They had no choice in the matter. And for those parents, sisters, or brothers of African Americans who fell into this society, we cannot be using and abusing and violating their rights. Standing by in a dismissive stance --- a Canadian guy who works as a FTE at my/our American company said we Americans need to get our ____ together like it wasn't his problem too --- is not help.

Maybe I cannot eat the menu. But I am not helpless, nor am I apart from this problem. I also have agency. Let's not lost in silos here.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#12
post #8

I'm not an American, but there does seem to be some value in a contrarian opinion here. Namely, it isn't just police brutality that's the problem, but the whole cycle of violence. Yes, the officer who killed George Floyd needs to be prosecuted. Yes, the officer who wantonly pepper-sprayed protesters while driving past needs to be fired and charged. However, the riots and burning of police precincts have reinforced an…

no, i don't agree with this take. it's just chicken/egg then and figuring out who started it first.

i don't condone the riots or excuse the people obviously trying to take advantage of the situation sow chaos/loot stuff, but the spirit of riots are a manifestation of a failure of a system. people don't just riot as the default response to injustice.

imo, cops that are "racist" didn't become that way because of mobs like this. they joined the force because, like other positions of power, it allows them that arena to act out their beliefs. you remove these people by removing the structures that allow them to proliferate.

i feel like no matter what black people do to protest there is always someone critical of how they protest. had this been an open letter from the community nobody would pay attention. look at the repeated times this has happened in the country and what eventually happened to the perpetrators, even after going thru the formal legal process. look at the ire drawn toward kaepernik for kneeling.

in the end it is a complex issue and it's not like we can just put everyone onto a "side" and make it one-dimensional. and i agree that there has to be a mutual respect among the community. but, i'm of the belief that if you're in an elevated position like a cop you need to be held to a higher standard than the average citizen.

my .02

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster route, yet they don't. For instance, the State of Minnesota can get rid of "qualified immunity", and that state is not in the hands of Republicans.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#14
post #13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

[dead]

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#16
post #13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

Police Unions

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#17
post #13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

If you’re not part of the solution there’s good money in prolonging the problem.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#18
It's very difficult to take seriously when many opportunistic people so readily turn every case of blacks behaving badly into police brutality. In the coverage of Floyd yesterday, I even saw a black man (with a PhD) continuing the absurd narrative that Arbery was just out for a jog. It's difficult not to laugh sometimes.

While black collectivism is admirable, and something we Whites could learn a thing or two from, they must temper it with an ounce of reason and sense. They must accept that there are an awful lot of extremely dangerous and violent black men who our police must contend with every day, and that their behaviour in those situations is very often directly linked to the consequences they experience.

In the same way Whites feel a sense of justice when a bad White is roughed up by the cops, blacks will need to do the same. Their unrighteous indignation every time a thug is often rightly removed from our streets does nothing but emphasise how wide the gap is between our people.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#19
post #13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

They do...

Some things are hard to change, even when you control all the branches of government.

Re: The Long, Painful History of Police Brutality in the U.S.

#20
post #13
post #10

We have a systemic problem in this country when it comes to policing, and it’s not about racism - it’s far worse than that, if there even is such a thing. It’s called “qualified immunity” and it’s NOT in our country’s constitution. It’s a fabrication, a lie, a horrifying farce that allows our cops and DAs to operate with near total impunity for any malicious activity they choose to engage in. Our “system” is hopeless…

I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face? It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers? Leaving everything to the Supreme Court does not help, as it takes 100 years for SCOTUS to make a change, as Justices take baby steps. Politicians can take a faster ro…

>I always wonder why Democrats, while in power, don't something about this and other problems that African Americans face?

Do what? Make violent crimes legal?

>It is okay to accuse Republicans for blocking some reforms. Why can't Democrats address systemic injustices when they had numbers?

Those damn Republicans and enforcing rule of law!

Police brutality aside (there needs to be State-level inspectors general), African Americans need to stop commiting crimes at orders of magnitude higher levels than other minority groups.

Post reply on HN