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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#71

Post by king_magic »

a3n wrote: post #14
king_magic wrote: post #7

I don't really see the issue here with a surveillance drone to help keep the peace. I don't really care if it's "military technology" or not. Look, what happened was absolutely awful. People have a right to protest - and should, but peacefully. Riots, looting, burning buildings? Sorry, that's going to far. If the government starts firing rockets at people from that drone - well that's another story. But that is clear…

Do you have any issue with reporting the fact of and details of the surveillance?

Apply that same question to every other type of police surveillance. Why is this materially different?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#72

Post by jorblumesea »

pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

> It seems like everyday the country is falling further into the pit of becoming an authoritarian police state.

Let's be honest, the country is voting to become an authoritarian police state. US voters have historically had a flirtatious relationship with strong authoritarian style presidents. Trump just more openly so than others. When you look at voting patterns over the last 40 years, it's pretty clear we've been trending in this direction for quite awhile.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#73

Post by stult »

r00fus wrote: post #54
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

> Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament.

I mean, they could. And firefighting planes could be rerigged to disperse chemical weapons, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them existing.

>Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

I'm guessing it's on loan. It's hardly unusual or questionable for the feds to provide assistance to local police during periods of extraordinary crisis. However justified the people of Minneapolis may be in reacting this way to yet another police homicide, what else are the local police supposed to do now except try to restore order using whatever tools are available? Including drones that can provide immediate information about hotspots, crowds, fires, etc.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#74

Post by joering2 »

aaomidi wrote: post #38
wafn wrote: post #35

Pretty sure there are laws against mass arson, looting, rioting, vandalism, etc. so if the people can't follow laws why should the government?

Are you actually kidding me? Do you know who else decided to shoot rioters? Iran, Syria, China. Are you saying this is what we've come to? In that case, more power to these rioters to rid us of this disgusting state.

Its basically an opinion of so many people that 1776 was a nice and pleasant meeting between locals and British Government.

The locals sat down and said: "sorry we do apologize but we do not want you here anymore; please kindly go". And then Brits responded: "sure! we spent centuries conquering the whole world, hundreds of thousands of our brothers and fathers died in the process, but since you so peaceful and ask so politely, we have no problems to give up on this vast land of minerals and opportunities, pack our belongings and sail home. See ya!".

In reality the 1776 happen pretty much the same as you watch the riots today, other than they didn't have tear gas and there were no cellphones.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#75

Post by thescriptkiddie »

pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

"fascism is imperialist repression turned inward"

- Zak Cope

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#76

Post by Thriptic »

king_magic wrote: post #52
Thriptic wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is there is no transparency about what is happening with the data that is being collected.

Would it be any different if it was a police helicopter manned with a guy with a video camera?

Well, first I can almost guarantee that the surveillance tech being employed on a predator drone is substantially more advanced and wide ranging than a simple human operated video camera, but I also don't think it's a good idea to have guys with video cameras in helicopters recording protests either unless it's to film illegality. It has a chilling effect on the exercise of free speech. Peaceful protesters really shouldn't be getting surveiled / data gathered during protests shouldn't be getting mined, and unless authorities can guarantee that isn't happening then recording makes me uncomfortable.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#77

Post by HarryHirsch »

cheschire wrote: post #8

Am I correct in assuming this is actively recording footage that will be processed later to identify the paths of criminals? edit: Interesting, I left this post an hour ago and it was getting upvotes, now it's negative with no negative responses. I wish the down arrow only worked on posts you replied to first.

You are correct, and you should be more worried about pervasive surveillance than about the government taking your guns.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#78

Post by ip26 »

r00fus wrote: post #54
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

Are you sure? Police use military surplus helicopters, such as the Cobra and Black Hawk, both of which can be armed with hellfires.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#79

Post by joshmn »

daeken wrote: post #9
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

What I don't understand is why many of these small businesses — which have items of value to many people — were targeted. To me, that's burning to burn, damaging to damage, and looting to loot.

https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildi...

This is my home. I visit many of these businesses. I do business with two owners on that list. There are groups of people out here who, yes, are looting to loot and burning to burn.

I understand burning down the precinct though. I'm not upset about that.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#80

Post by daeken »

king_magic wrote: post #63
petee wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are being murdered, how would you respond? We can't possibly understand the anger these people feel. If an innocent man is murdered by police, and they riot as a result, we need to start listening. As for the domestic terrorists, they were all out and about the city. Either way, a group of people with guns you watch, how could you know where they'd go next, or what they'd do. And the core fact is, if those w…

I'm sorry, but I don't think the solution is to immediately reach for a Molotov cocktail and firebomb a Target. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't. Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target.

> Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

"[i]t is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right.... Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice."

ETA:

> Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target.

What is "reasonable civil disobedience"? If that Target is only in the neighborhood because it's an experimental LP store put in an incredibly impoverished area so that they can develop better techniques for putting people of color in prison, is it suddenly reasonable? https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505

Who are we to make that call, in either direction?

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