Can a TV news channel operate one as well?
US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
61–70 of 456 posts
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is there is no transparency about what is happening with the data that is being collected.
Would it be any different if it was a police helicopter manned with a guy with a video camera?
Yes, because a police helicopter is different for two reasons: (1) it’s not operated by CBP (who have no jurisdiction here), and (2) a police helicopter doesn’t have Hellfire missile bays.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are folks who are legitimately angry and are expressing that peacefully. And then there are people torching businesses, police stations and cars. Do you not think there is any sort of reasonable line being crossed here? I don't think it's fair to say it's inconsistent use when the domestic terrorists (yes, I agree with that portrayal) took over the statehouse. They were all in the statehouse, or in the immediat…
No, they are being murdered, how would you respond? We can't possibly understand the anger these people feel. If an innocent man is murdered by police, and they riot as a result, we need to start listening. As for the domestic terrorists, they were all out and about the city. Either way, a group of people with guns you watch, how could you know where they'd go next, or what they'd do. And the core fact is, if those w…
I'm sorry, but I don't think the solution is to immediately reach for a Molotov cocktail and firebomb a Target. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't.
Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. Please do as the other guy said and shut up and listen for five minutes. Protesters took over the precinct station that the murderers worked at and burned it to the ground last night. https://kstp.com/news/protests-continue-in-twin-cities-st-pa...
Which was a terrible thing to because it harms the community and their own cause as it makes them look like thugs and villains. And there have indeed been many taking advantage of the situation to steak and cause chaos for chaos' sake.
> Which was a terrible thing to because it harms the community and their own cause as it makes them look like thugs and villains.
> And there have indeed been many taking advantage of the situation to steak and cause chaos for chaos' sake.
Violence, as well as hangars-on who are just there for the violence, have been part of anti-state, anti-abuse-of-power protests since time immemorial.
The only people who think it "harms their own cause" are the people looking for excuses not to be critical of the power structures and police instead.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#65I don't really see the issue here with a surveillance drone to help keep the peace. I don't really care if it's "military technology" or not. Look, what happened was absolutely awful. People have a right to protest - and should, but peacefully. Riots, looting, burning buildings? Sorry, that's going to far. If the government starts firing rockets at people from that drone - well that's another story. But that is clear…
Predator drones can carry multiple air to ground missiles and guided bombs. This is the same model of drone which is used for drone strikes in the Middle East. There is no reasonable reason for a domestic civilian agency to own or use these drones over US soil vs models which are incapable of carrying armament.
I think the capability of carrying armament is irrelevant as long as it isn't actually carrying weapons. Anything can be retrofitted, and even without modifications any aircraft is a weapon in and of itself.
From CBP's standpoint, it makes sense. What other unmanned aircraft could carry the same sensor package, while also being incapable of being armed? There's the Global Hawk, which costs about 10x more than a Reaper.
There's a reason that a civilian agency like NASA owns so many fighter jets (F-15/16s). R&D is expensive and there's no need to reinvent the wheel. (Also worth noting-- NASA also owns some Predator drones)
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would it be any different if it was a police helicopter manned with a guy with a video camera?
Yes, because a police helicopter is different for two reasons: (1) it’s not operated by CBP (who have no jurisdiction here), and (2) a police helicopter doesn’t have Hellfire missile bays.
Putting aside the CBP issue (fair point, agreed, that's weird), it's not like police helicopters haven't been used for pretty bad things in the past - e.g. when Philadelphia firebombed it's citizens in the 80s.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#67"The drone flown over Minneapolis is an unarmed version of the aircraft."
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#68This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…
Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?
One of the factors is the potential persistence and scale of drone-based surveillance systems. I think asking that question is important, because we have the capability to deploy (and shockingly, have deployed, at least on a trial basis) constant wide-area surveillance via drones in the US (Gorgon Stare): https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-battlefield-surveillance-c...
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#69Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…
Fwiw, they are trying to identify a provocateur involved in the start of the riots. https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/1266127105621983238?...
This is what I find most troubling.
I don't mind if there's a disruption. But I do mind needlessly inciting chaos for the purpose of creating mayhem. We don't know this person, yet, but as AG Ellison said in his tweet he looks like he's just there to provoke.
That's where the message gets lost.
Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which was a terrible thing to because it harms the community and their own cause as it makes them look like thugs and villains. And there have indeed been many taking advantage of the situation to steak and cause chaos for chaos' sake.
> Which was a terrible thing to because it harms the community and their own cause as it makes them look like thugs and villains. > And there have indeed been many taking advantage of the situation to steak and cause chaos for chaos' sake. Violence, as well as hangars-on who are just there for the violence, have been part of anti-state, anti-abuse-of-power protests since time immemorial. The only people who think it…
That sounds nice to radicals and perhaps functions well as something they tell themselves to excuse violent tendencies, but in reality it just disgusts the vast majority of law abiding people, as is the case with the current protests. Public opinion is quickly turning from sympathy to disgust.