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Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

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Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#41

Post by Izkata »

goda90 wrote: post #16

"Adipose tissue (“belly fat”) appears to absorb but not release vitamin D. If we want to do some armchair hypothesizing, perhaps people historically used to lose weight in winter, which definitely would release the stored vitamin D just when it was needed." This is an interesting idea. It's believed our bodies get fat to ensure we have energy when food is scarce. It makes sense that we'd also want to have vitamins av…

An addition to that: Over a decade ago (so unfortunately I have no reference, this just stuck with me for how against common sense it was) I remember reading that being overweight but not obese correlated with good health better than being "normal" weight did. Their theory was that if being sick made it so you were less hungry, you could still get an energy boost by using up fat reserves and be able to fight off illness faster.

This sounds like a much more specific and more testable version of that theory.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#42

Post by Dylan16807 »

pjkundert wrote: post #23
api wrote: post #3

One difficulty in determining if vitamin D actually helps with COVID is determining if vitamin D levels are directly affecting outcomes or whether they are a proxy for something else. For example: are low levels a proxy for people who don't go outside much and therefore don't exercise? That's a huge problem in medical studies generally.

There is strong evidence of this, summarized: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure... Huge inverse correlation between Vitamin D and all-cause mortality -- but almost complete failure of vitamin D supplementation vs. cancer, heart disease and stroke. What? Turns out that sunlight produces vitamin D -- and a host of other difficult to detect artifacts, which seem to be at the root of the reduct…

Doctors advising people to avoid sun exposure? Is that strawman based on anything?

I hope you don't mean the advice to use sunscreen when you're going to be outside so long you'd get sunburn without it.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#43

Post by trevorkoob »

Did my masters on Vitamin D - It is very difficult to extract CLINICALLY RELEVANT information from retrospective epidemiological studies.

However, there a a few things that are clear:

1. Calcium absorption from the intestine increases with vitamin D supplementation dose up to around 8-10,000 IU D3 daily.

2. 15 minutes of full body exposure in noon sun is equivalent to a dose of ~20,000 IU D3

3. There are few cases of vitamin D overdose in the literature - doses in the 1,000,000 IU+ range within days is generally where symptoms are noted - this excludes people with kidney disorders.

Personally, I take 10k IU D3 a day. The D3 is important because D2 has 1/2 to 1/3 the effect per dose in raising calcium absorption levels.

I would recommend this level of supplementation to anyone who doesn’t have a kidney disorder.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#44

Post by tomtomistaken »

watertom wrote: post #20

Since I was a child I’ve been a walking respiratory illness machine. Bronchitis, sinusitis, flu, pneumonia, common cold, etc. During “flu” season I was usually sick for the entire season with a rotating assortment of viral respiratory issues, this lasted until about 7 years ago. 8 years ago in September I started taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 and 180mg of K2 daily. I haven’t had a deputies illness since. My children…

I had anxiety attacks and back pain for years. Maybe it’s just a weird and strong placebo effect, but after starting to take vitamin D these things were simply gone.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#45

Post by billman »

deweller wrote: post #24
tomhoward wrote: post #22

All these articles about different individual nutrients start to feel like heath whack-a-mole. How about this: to be in the best possible position to beat any serious infection, you need to be in generally good health. That means having adequate levels of all essential nutrients - i.e., all the vitamins, minerals, amino acids, enzymes etc that you get from maintaining a good diet and healthy lifestyle over the long t…

"Just" focusing on one nutrient isn't the answer. But sufficient Vitamin D is important. It is something we should pay attention to. Health is complex. No one is advocating ignoring all the other aspects of immune system function by paying attention to vitamin D. [Update] I see you have toned down your comment since I started composing this response. We are in agreement.

I think it's important to note that Vitamin D is a hormone. And the body produces it as well.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#46

Post by jerf »

illvm wrote: post #39
paulirwin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another important pair, too: Vitamin D and Magnesium. But consult your doctor before taking extra amounts of anything. There is a lot of misinformation on the web around Vitamin D, such as that even high amounts (>= 5000IU) are tolerable and safe. After a blood test showed me Vitamin D deficient, taking 5000IU (that size is readily available over the counter at my grocery store) daily gave me disturbing hear…

These units seem _incredibly_ low to me. Your skin can generate almost 3000 IU in just 15 minutes on the right day. Many doctors even recommend treatments of 150,000 IU or more, in one go to correct deficiencies (do not do attempt without a doctor's recommendation and supervision). I do not doubt your experience, but it seems incredible to me that just a 5000 IU supplement gave you heart palpitations. Then again, I'v…

GP may have had a "heart on the edge"; just because your heart is currently beating correctly doesn't mean that it may not be just a wee bit of disruption away from beating incorrectly. Or you could have a lot of safety margin. I don't know whether medical tests could distinguish the two but just in day-to-day life there's very little way for you to tell the difference. (I wish I could; it would help me a lot.)

It is completely possible for "more of a good thing" to have a negative impact on you because it pushes something out of balance beyond what homeostatis can maintain. In principle the best solution is to go get more of what you need to balance it, but that can be easier said than done. Between the things that science still just plain doesn't know and the chaff of all kinds of garbage information about nutrition on the internet it can be very hard to figure out what you need.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#47

Post by trevorkoob »

illvm wrote: post #39
paulirwin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another important pair, too: Vitamin D and Magnesium. But consult your doctor before taking extra amounts of anything. There is a lot of misinformation on the web around Vitamin D, such as that even high amounts (>= 5000IU) are tolerable and safe. After a blood test showed me Vitamin D deficient, taking 5000IU (that size is readily available over the counter at my grocery store) daily gave me disturbing hear…

These units seem _incredibly_ low to me. Your skin can generate almost 3000 IU in just 15 minutes on the right day. Many doctors even recommend treatments of 150,000 IU or more, in one go to correct deficiencies (do not do attempt without a doctor's recommendation and supervision). I do not doubt your experience, but it seems incredible to me that just a 5000 IU supplement gave you heart palpitations. Then again, I'v…

Curious about your source for 3000 in 15 - I have read and reported more, and would like to read your source.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#48

Post by pdonis »

pjkundert wrote: post #23
api wrote: post #3

One difficulty in determining if vitamin D actually helps with COVID is determining if vitamin D levels are directly affecting outcomes or whether they are a proxy for something else. For example: are low levels a proxy for people who don't go outside much and therefore don't exercise? That's a huge problem in medical studies generally.

There is strong evidence of this, summarized: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure... Huge inverse correlation between Vitamin D and all-cause mortality -- but almost complete failure of vitamin D supplementation vs. cancer, heart disease and stroke. What? Turns out that sunlight produces vitamin D -- and a host of other difficult to detect artifacts, which seem to be at the root of the reduct…

The studies referenced in the Outside Online article failed to collect a crucial piece of data: what were the actual blood levels of Vitamin D in the participants?

Without that piece of data you have no idea what, if any, difference the supplements were actually making vs. placebo.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#49

Post by jerf »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #42
pjkundert wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is strong evidence of this, summarized: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure... Huge inverse correlation between Vitamin D and all-cause mortality -- but almost complete failure of vitamin D supplementation vs. cancer, heart disease and stroke. What? Turns out that sunlight produces vitamin D -- and a host of other difficult to detect artifacts, which seem to be at the root of the reduct…

Doctors advising people to avoid sun exposure? Is that strawman based on anything? I hope you don't mean the advice to use sunscreen when you're going to be outside so long you'd get sunburn without it.

How old are you?

I can assure you, whether it was the intent or not, that the message got out in the 1980s and 1990s that all sunlight exposure is uniformly bad and its only effect is to increase your likelihood of skin cancer, so everyone should avoid it and unconditionally use strong sunscreen for any exposure.

Re: Vitamin D: the New Covid-19 Chloroquine?

#50

Post by ed25519FUUU »

These studies need to keep up until we can fully account for the difference in fatality not only worldwide, but state to state.

Why has Japan, with an older population (median age 47), a tiny island, crowded indoor subways —- has only experienced 900 deaths and never locked down! while some zip codes in New York experiences 2x that amount.

Even state to state the difference is alarming.

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