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Remote work means anyone can take your job

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Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#431

Post by narrator »

azinman2 wrote: post #401
HarryHirsch wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then, Commodore had an advantage over the competition because they had MOS Technologies as a subsidiary and could rapidly iterate on hardware design. Same in the life sciences business. Nothing is easier than dreaming up a compound, but then you encounter reality, some compounds may be difficult to access synthetically, there are unexpected interactions, and these issues are best sorted out when synthetic chemis…

Which is why the trend with Apple is to do everything in-house (SoC, etc). Tight vertical integration facilitates difficult software-hardware technologies.

This reminds me of Standard Oil back in the 19th century. They had so much cash floating around that they could build big integrated refineries, railroad and pipeline infrastructure which contributed heavily to efficiency. The price of Kerosene dropped 80% during the history of the company.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#432

Post by rtikulit »

cl0rkster wrote: post #233
disabled wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and the posters thinking that this will help wealth inequality (either among the general population or just among tech workers collectively as a whole) are hopelessly naive. It is practically guaranteed to make wealth inequality worse, and now tech workers will start to feel a lot of pain, more like the general US population has. This is going to happen faster than other times when offshoring has occurred in va…

I'm confused. Perhaps you could clarify how honing your skills to be valuable as a remote worker is somehow the gateway to the rich eating all of us. My personal experience with remote work is that it allows me to be present as a father in my children's lives and also to be more productive. I'm not saying everyone will have that experience, but for me it's an excellent fit. As far as productivity, if we look at produ…

The entrenched economic powers will (as they always do in these economic transitions) capture a disproportionate share of any productivity gains resulting from a mass change to remote work. And their spirits don't care if you win a low stakes battle. They are winning the war. (Just a metaphor, folks!)

They have their hands on the levers. The have the resources to arbitrage or withhold or defect or take hostages (economic!) until they get what they think they can get.

Same thing will happen with self-driving cars.

The peons will capture just enough value so the new life seems a bit better than the old life.

(Long long time remote worker, since before my 17 year-old was born. Love being at home with my kids, love the efficiency and flexibility.

Doesn't change the ultimate macro outcome.)

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#433

Post by Melting_Harps »

davedx wrote: post #7

Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work. What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

> Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work.

Agreed.

> What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

Which realistically they cannot enforce, merely incentivize; I'm pro-remote work, mainly because it can free up roads and reduce emissions for more critical infrastructure and needs in the Market, all while offering people the ability to re-locate to less populated areas and ideally help under development, and boost there local economies there. That includes International/Non-US based countries.

Seems like a win-win to me.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#434

Post by 1stranger »

dougmwne wrote: post #277
blululu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that 'Tennessee' is the correct spelling for Shenzhen. The low cost of living states in the US are still expensive compared to low cost of living countries. There is engineering talent around the world, and I don't see how the rural parts of the US are going to compete with more urban populations in other well educated parts of the world.

Actually if you look at cost of living data, the USA is in quite an interesting position. It contains both some of the most expensive and cheapest cost of living in the developed world. Salaries in some areas are some of the highest in the world, and in other places are closer to Eastern Europe or South America once you've accounted for things like taxes and healthcare. There's a seriously huge gap in pay when lookin…

Those salaries are not correct for either location.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#435

Post by perl4ever »

pnutjam wrote: post #290
bartread wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are a "moving target". What may be a bottom-tier worker now, could very well be a valuable employee in 5-10 years. Many folks have built their career by starting at a low level and then getting promoted and upskilled over time through hard work and commitment. Starting at a low position and advancing is becoming, sadly, a rare thing. I think the validity of this point depends on how you understand "bottom ti…

People who suck at their job can learn, and become better. Not all, but everyone was bad at something before they leveled up. Highly commoditized positions are also a great way to learn about less commoditized work. How many old rich people used to say they started in the mailroom.

I was out of work a couple years ago and I applied to work in a mailroom. It turned out that the company whose mailroom it was, was not the hiring entity - it was outsourced. So, no working your way up anywhere.

Furthermore, the interviewer spent the entire interview complaining about how she mostly couldn't even get people who would show up, let alone act maturely. We discussed the starting date, but within a day or two she reneged, presumably because I had dressed formally for a minimum wage job and was overqualified.

Another thing that comes to mind is the janitorial duties were outsourced in the building I used to work in.

This sort of thing is why I think it's dumb whenever I read something about a progressive company having a minimum wage of whatever for their employees - it's purely a statement about who they keep on their books and who they use indirectly.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#436

Post by cl0rkster »

rtikulit wrote: post #432
cl0rkster wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Perhaps you could clarify how honing your skills to be valuable as a remote worker is somehow the gateway to the rich eating all of us. My personal experience with remote work is that it allows me to be present as a father in my children's lives and also to be more productive. I'm not saying everyone will have that experience, but for me it's an excellent fit. As far as productivity, if we look at produ…

The entrenched economic powers will (as they always do in these economic transitions) capture a disproportionate share of any productivity gains resulting from a mass change to remote work. And their spirits don't care if you win a low stakes battle. They are winning the war. (Just a metaphor, folks!) They have their hands on the levers. The have the resources to arbitrage or withhold or defect or take hostages (econ…

I hear you. The good will and love of your children is something even death can't take, though. Money can't be banked beyond the grave. No religion. Just Pascal's wager in effect.

I'm hardly an abused slave ready for violent revolution. My life is pretty good if it's just meaningless. Naval gazing at some rich person doesn't help me at all. However, I do believe that guns in the hands of America's peaceful fathers are the best deterrent to the tyranny that everyone here just seems to accept as unavoidable.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#437

Post by perl4ever »

tharne wrote: post #328
danielfoster wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Not to mention it has become much easier for anyone motivated to learn valuable skills online-- now there will be more opportunities to apply them. Someone in the Philippines learning Python on Khan Academy today could very well be competitive for a senior engineering job in 10 years if the career path were possible. I've met countless skilled technical people who could not a get job at XYZ company simply due t…

You're probably right about this, but I'm betting we'll see political parties in countries all over the world start putting up roadblocks to this sort of thing. It's already happening to a degree. There a number of what you might call "reluctant Trump voters" where I work. The most frequent (and often only) argument you'll hear from them in favor Trump is around immigration and H1-B visas. You'll also notice that the…

My opinion has been that it's good for US workers if foreigners immigrate and become citizens, because even if they make less than most Americans, they make more than they did in their prior country, which means they are improving the global market for labor, from the point of view of workers.

But having classes of people who live in the country but have special restricted rights and never become full citizens worries me.

I wish we could move away from the idea that citizenship is a reward for following the rules and instead consider that making people citizens is a benefit for (maybe even vital to preserving) society.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#439

Post by davedx »

yusufnb wrote: post #94
davedx wrote: post #7

Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work. What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

Remote work is not the same as out-sourcing. Out-sourcing was a necessary evil and only worked for large/mature companies with carved out business processes that could be offloaded. These companies were never remote-first. With companies being forced to modify their internal processes to be remote-first, what they will realize is that remote does work once they align to it. And once they realize that, there is no sto…

I think that's splitting hairs.

For example a few years ago I worked with a programmer from India who was part of a "remote consulting company" based in the Netherlands. The experience of working with her was identical to working with the larger offshore companies based in India. As in, time zone, cultural and communication barriers were substantial and disruptive to our productivity.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#440

Post by davedx »

rclayton wrote: post #100
davedx wrote: post #7

Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work. What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

Communication and cultural differences become significant drags on velocity. Time zone differences exacerbate resolving issues. More importantly, it’s tough communicating technical issues in your non-native language. It’s also hard to build an engineering culture when you don’t engage with your coworkers often. You have to build credibility so you can work through difficult issues - that’s hard to do when your primar…

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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