Remote work means anyone can take your job • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#191

Post by exclusiv » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #151

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Real time, remote communication through tools like zoom, slack, and lucidchart (in my humble opinion) has been solved. It might take some getting used to, but in the right environment a group of properly motivated individuals can achieve the same productivity as their peers in a conference room. What is not solved, of course, is how a remote-only employee can build trust and relationships with peers. In my opinion…

Through projects? I'm working remotely and it's the same as in person. First few months is about everyone feeling each other out once you understand more you give people more trust in those areas.

Agreed. Also - one benefit of going remote is you can more easily avoid anyone you dislike! So that's a win over the office.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#192

Post by matz1 » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

gregkerzhner wrote: post #132

Real time, remote communication through tools like zoom, slack, and lucidchart (in my humble opinion) has been solved. It might take some getting used to, but in the right environment a group of properly motivated individuals can achieve the same productivity as their peers in a conference room. Asynchronous communication across timezones has not been solved, and I struggle to see how it would be. A lot of collaborat…

>Asynchronous communication across timezones has not been solved

True, but the workaround is I'm willing to adjust my work hour to fit my team. In a big city, life can still be 'lively' during the night.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#193

Post by cvlasdkv » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:21 PM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #149

mc32 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the first wave of outsourcing, companies saw that the contract organization provided more or less equivalent results at substantially reduced cost. What they failed to realize is what they outsourced were their bottom tier workers, the unproductive people. They got excited by the reduced cost with minimal reduction in effectiveness. When they try to outsource their better talent that’s where they failed to recogni…

The day before they graduate, a Harvard college student will work on your research project or startup for $0/mo, if it’s interesting enough. The day after, Facebook is ready to pay them $10,000/mo+. They’re the same human being before and after graduation day. Just as talented the day before as the day after. It’s the pedigree variable that explains the vast majority of the salary. You’re saying something similar, it…

There are plenty of bootcamp grads across the companies I've worked and they all make 100k+ (and some are established senior engineers).

Like you are implying: status signaling from degree mills is pretty useless compared to actual competency.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#194

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #174

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Real time, remote communication through tools like zoom, slack, and lucidchart (in my humble opinion) has been solved. It might take some getting used to, but in the right environment a group of properly motivated individuals can achieve the same productivity as their peers in a conference room. What is not solved, of course, is how a remote-only employee can build trust and relationships with peers. In my opinion…

> What is not solved, of course, is how a remote-only employee can build trust and relationships with peers. You're saying that trust can't be built virtually? I think there are online communities whose members would say they trust each other, and can collaborate and work together just fine. A lot of open source communities certainly work on this basis. Besides, working remote-only doesn't mean occasional meetups or…

Trust can be built virtually, but it requires large and conscious effort, whereas in person most people who work closely will automatically develop trust.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#195

Post by HarryHirsch » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #104

HarryHirsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more highly qualified you are the more at risk to offshoring your job is. A long time ago, Albany Molecular, a contract research organization, highlighted they were based in Albany, NY. A shithole, yes, but a shithole with cheap cost of living. Nowadays, the PhD jobs are based in Shanghai, Szeged and Hyderabad. The only thing that's left stateside is regulatory functions and support. You don't need a PhD for that…

Totally tangential: What makes Albany a shithole? It looks like an attractive town to me...

All these rustbelt towns are suffering from 30 years of tax base erosion and high unemployment, with nothing to replace it. It's somehow reminiscent of post-fall Trantor. Further up the I-91 corridor is nicer!

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#196

Post by troughway » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

You can "solve" the timezone issue by having chain of command changes.

Think about all those distributed teams that are all over the place, how do they work? They've been doing this for years now, are successful, and they must have done something right.

From what I have seen: reporting structures are different, team sizes tend to be smaller. In some circumstances, particular cities have "hubs" for employees if anything needs to be done on-site.

It's not rocket surgery, it's not blindly obvious either, but there is a solution here.

I don't like the tone of these articles because they have such a negative, fear-porn driven bait title that it mars whatever good wisdom the author wants to impart.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#197

Post by cvlasdkv » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

the_svd_doctor wrote: post #133

jedberg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You vastly underestimate the tax and legal implications of an American company hiring and paying a Brazilian in Brazil.

That really seems like something that can be figured out, especially if the result is 3x less in wages. Unlike immigrating to the US, which is sometimes plain impossible.

It is only worth it for companies beyond a certain size. Smaller companies will always opt for visas vs. figuring out remote taxes.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#198

Post by ryanianian » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #129

I had this same fear a few years back. I don't have any notable personal projects on GitHub and my skills are pretty standard (Full Stack .NET) these days. I don't even have a degree. Nothing really stands out in my resume that screams "hire this person". I figured I would hardly get a response when applying to remote companies let alone an offer. The competition is surely way more qualified than I am. Furthermore I…

Writing code is only like 60% of the job, and the other 40% can far outweigh the value of the code. Technical talent is everywhere for sure, so the 60% is easy to off-shore or put to remote. But rarely in my experience does that off-shoring to cheaper locations result in candidates qualified in the other 40% of the job. That may change (hopefully will) over time, but it's not like it's a lurking fact that is just waiting for its moment.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#199

Post by johnward » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #124

Let’s flip this around. If [anyone] can take [your] job, then it stands to reason that remote work means I can take someone else’s job. But what would this mean for me? First off it would mean doing all the same work to prepare myself as a candidate. Take Machine Learning for example, which is my area. I need to prepare my resume based on my current projects. I need to brush up for nauseating leet-code hazing trivia…

> I need to brush up for nauseating leet-code hazing trivia dumb shit

I know this isn't your main point but as someone who is interviewing this really hits at home. These leetcode interviews kill me.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#200

Post by dwiel » Thu, May 28, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

exclusiv wrote: post #191

wolco wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through projects? I'm working remotely and it's the same as in person. First few months is about everyone feeling each other out once you understand more you give people more trust in those areas.

Agreed. Also - one benefit of going remote is you can more easily avoid anyone you dislike! So that's a win over the office.

This can also backfire when it's easier to avoid confrontation which if resolved would be a net gain for everyone.