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U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#51

Post by rchaud »

pmachinery wrote: post #44

> it’s easy to forget that many oppressed and subjugated people around the world still look to the U.S. with hope It's easy to forget because it's just a fairy tale Americans tell themselves. Oppressed and subjugated people flee to the nearest country that isn't the one oppressing them. Often that country is in fact China (from North Korea). This article doesn't even pretend to be talking about saving oppressed and s…

Rich Western countries will for the most part, only accept the best and the brightest, refugee or not. People who under different circumstances, would still have been able to jump through the various hurdles to immigrate legally.

I read plenty of stories about the million plus people that have been afforded entry to Europe in the last few years. Yet there is very little in the English-language press about the millions more that have made their homes, for better or for worse, in neighbouring countries like Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#53

Post by throwaheyy »

mcfly1985 wrote: post #26
bmy78 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to say that when you're afforded the comforts of a Western democracy.

Comforts I have because my American ancestors stayed and fought a war for, instead of running away.

Which makes your line of argument all the more obnoxious considering you contributed nothing to those comforts.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#54

Post by sephlietz »

mcfly1985 wrote: post #48
sephlietz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point are the people having heart attacks responsible for stopping them? The people having heart attacks need to treat them themselves, not run away to a hospital.

Nice straw man.

If anything, my comment was a false analogy, not a straw man.

Your comment was arguably a straw man, however, as it attacked a point which the article did not make (i.e., Hong Kong should not be responsible for itself) instead of any of the actual arguments (which focused on the benefits to the United States: strategic, economic, and political).

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#55

Post by DamnYuppie »

gambiting wrote: post #13
mcfly1985 wrote: post #4

Um, no? At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for changing it for the better? The citizens of Hong Kong need to stay and fight for the rights they desire, not run away to another country.

As a citizen of a country that was invaded and taken apart multiple times in the last 200 years(Poland) - no, that's a very noble idea, but in practice that doesn't always work. Poland has survived in the shape that it is mostly because people were able to move and cultivate the Polish language, culture and heritage elsewhere temporarily. We even had a government-in-exile for a while in London, at the time when Polan…

The point that your argument misses is that it was fighting the invariably resolved the issues and paved the way for the exiled governments and people to return.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#56

Post by mcfly1985 »

throwaheyy wrote: post #53
mcfly1985 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comforts I have because my American ancestors stayed and fought a war for, instead of running away.

Which makes your line of argument all the more obnoxious considering you contributed nothing to those comforts.

Nope, I was lucky that my ancestors fought for the future of their children. People in Hong Kong need to do the same, so their children can also be so lucky.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#57

Post by mcfly1985 »

sephlietz wrote: post #54
mcfly1985 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice straw man.

If anything, my comment was a false analogy, not a straw man. Your comment was arguably a straw man, however, as it attacked a point which the article did not make (i.e., Hong Kong should not be responsible for itself) instead of any of the actual arguments (which focused on the benefits to the United States: strategic, economic, and political).

Such insecurity.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#58

Post by TheCoelacanth »

adventured wrote: post #37
petermcneeley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even America was created by people fleeing England and then breaking it off from the British empire (using a violent uprising). They didnt fix England.

> They didnt fix England. Eventually they did, in a roundabout way. The rise of the US, causing Britain to lose its lucrative colonies (and the future potential value of their North American holdings), helped break the British Empire. They could not sustain their empire with its shrinking assets. Empires bloat, ossify and become more expensive to maintain over time. To counter that, you need an outsized injection of…

I think you have your history mixed up. The British Empire reached its height after losing the US.

What eventually broke it was the World Wars.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#60

Post by Simulacra »

adventured wrote: post #45
bspammer wrote: post #9

What would be the diplomatic consequences of this? I'm assuming China would be very unhappy with any country making this offer to Hong Kongers, but perhaps I'm wrong and they'd prefer for dissidents to leave.

Minimal real diplomatic consequences, other than China issuing some loud statements that they're furious at the US meddling in their internal affairs. It might amount to 100k-300k people as a max range. It's an excellent opportunity for China to demonstrate the superiority of their system, as they so frequently claim. We'll play a little game. Open immigration into China for US citizens. Open immigration into the US…

The last thing we need is another Nixon moment of opening America to China. This has not proven to be in our best favor, aside from the multiple Chinese viruses that have floated our way; trade imbalance, current manipulation, gross human rights violations, IP theft, hacking, subversion of elections, oh gosh the list goes on. America must close the door on China.
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