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Remote work means anyone can take your job

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Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#71
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my totally unscientific assessment of remote job boards, US companies seem to be the only ones requesting US-only applicants, and I have no insight as to why this happens. In my -South American- country the trend is to look outwards if you're hiring remotely; European countries seem to fit this description too.

I've made the same observation. Does it have something to do with US tax or other regulations?

Yes, recent changes in the tax code made it less enticing for US companies to offshore US jobs. The company can potentially end up losing a lot of (otherwise legitimately acquired) tax benefits.

With respect to R&D, for example, the US no longer allows foreign R&D activities to qualify for the R&D tax credit.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#72
And you can take anyone’s. The scale is bigger but is hard to argue if the ratio isn’t similar but just at a larger scale. I think the bigger difference is the option to WFH is not just an after thought, but a real option now.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#73
post #32

The economic incentives to out-source development to India have been there for decades. In the 2000s, "everyone" (i.e., the media) was sure that soon there would be no high-paying programming jobs left in the Western world. Well, how did that pan out?

Yes. Please send details on how we surely implement the microservices.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a great comparison. Coal mining isn't knowledge work.

What - why?! Because knowledge work is more important for some reason?

Yes? For a tech company outsourcing software creation is like outsourcing upper management, sure you can do it but then you basically move the whole business. If you want to create an American tech company then the tech needs to be built in America. Indian tech companies are not nearly as successful as American ones, so you probably want to stay an American tech company today. Once India starts cranking out companies that beats out American ones you will probably see more tech companies move their entire HQ there, but until then they will mostly stay in USA.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#75
post #60

remote work should mean that software engineers should get payed exactly the same anywhere on earth. If they had to go through the same interview process to get a job and are literally doing the exact same job then they should be payed the same as a SWE in SV or NYC

You can try paying software engineers exactly the same anywhere on Earth, but SV and NYC engineers generally won't work at "anywhere on Earth" prices.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#76
post #12

It also means i can take someone else's job. It balances out.

More competition leads to lower wages.

Except for the owners of the company, they get to pocket the difference...

But of course this is less about tech workers that are already getting outsourced because the, well, workers are more technically savvy anyway so of course it happened sooner.

It is possibly more relevant to people in management, or people like professors and many other random jobs who are discovering that working from home works fine for them. Though sometimes it's questionable whether this is because their work is largely on a computer or just because they didn't do much anyway...

If we don't have permanent UBI in place soon it will continue to be an emergency response to job losses like now. The economy is shifting as surely as the sun sets to one where if you don't own or play a major leadership role you either aren't necessary or can be outsourced.

Floor workers are getting replaced with robots and touchscreens; managers are realizing they too can be outsourced; lawyers are finding that no, the work they do isn't that hard to automate; doctors are finding that machine learning can analyze images better than they can; it's not going to stop... why would it? Why would a business owner want to keep a human with a continually increasing salary around if they can possibly replace you with technology that costs your annual salary once and after that just requires maintenance?

There are cases where that's just not possible, but my imagination for what is possible to swap has definitely gotten bigger. Even if a job isn't entirely replaceable, productivity tools are making the same amount of work take a quarter of the staff.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#77
post #19

The implication from this litter of thinkpieces on HN is that proximity to a tech hub (SV/NY) is your only competitive advantage as a knowledge worker—your butt is close to their chair. This runs counter to the other prevailing wisdom about SV/NY, which is that those areas are hubs—and essential to the tech industry—because the world's top talent is drawn to it. So which is it?

Things that don't make sense tend to get adjusted during bad economic times. I've worked with alot of companies as a customer, and at end of the day, none of the stakeholders are getting bang for the buck. Companies set money on fire, employees are mostly living a middle class lifestyle at an insane level of compensation.

I live out in the provinces, and we pay 20-30% of the rate for SV talent. My lifestyle in SV would require 7x the compensation without me being any smarter or skilled than I am. NYC is more of a real place and is probably less inflated, alot of the premium there is really about domain expertise.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#78
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my totally unscientific assessment of remote job boards, US companies seem to be the only ones requesting US-only applicants, and I have no insight as to why this happens. In my -South American- country the trend is to look outwards if you're hiring remotely; European countries seem to fit this description too.

European countries are outliers due to EU regulations. Any EU "citizen" can work anywhere in the EU, so pragmatically speaking, why would you only want to hire Spanish people instead of opening the door to French, Italian or German candidates? It comes at literally zero cost to the company. Some industries are heavily regulated in the US and having non-US based employees can become a real headache for US companies. A…

> European countries are outliers due to EU regulations. Any EU "citizen" can work anywhere in the EU, so pragmatically speaking, why would you only want to hire Spanish people instead of opening the door to French, Italian or German candidates? It comes at literally zero cost to the company.

The employer needs to pay social contributions in the employee's residence country. And more often than not, the employee cannot just become a freelancer or incorporate a single-person company and bill only one customer, as this is considered disguised employment. So no, it's not necessarily trivial for an EU company to hire a remote worker somewhere else in the EU, unless they have a local presence already.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#79
I've been working remote with an on-site team for a few years, and well, I'm not sure as everyone of that remote will be the default as the pandemic ends. At least on my current team, I could notice a lot of communication gaps that definitely impacted the velocity of the release that management should definitely be aware, and they are expecting going back to normal.

As I can see, that remote working might be a novelty, but I expect the inertia to push back after the lockdowns ease up.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#80
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You require more wages than someone in a cheaper country (assuming some western area). It balances out, but you're at risk.

The same was said about offshoring and so far it worked out.

Is that just because the total number of jobs that would be considered to be in your field went up by 10x in the last 20 years?
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