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Remote work means anyone can take your job

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Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#51

Post by hopia »

vcanales wrote: post #40
davedx wrote: post #7

Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work. What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

In my totally unscientific assessment of remote job boards, US companies seem to be the only ones requesting US-only applicants, and I have no insight as to why this happens. In my -South American- country the trend is to look outwards if you're hiring remotely; European countries seem to fit this description too.

I've made the same observation. Does it have something to do with US tax or other regulations?

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#52

Post by ralph84 »

beager wrote: post #19

The implication from this litter of thinkpieces on HN is that proximity to a tech hub (SV/NY) is your only competitive advantage as a knowledge worker—your butt is close to their chair. This runs counter to the other prevailing wisdom about SV/NY, which is that those areas are hubs—and essential to the tech industry—because the world's top talent is drawn to it. So which is it?

Why can't it be both? Companies locate where the talent is; the talent goes where the companies are. Your standard positive feedback loop.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#53

Post by toyg »

beager wrote: post #19

The implication from this litter of thinkpieces on HN is that proximity to a tech hub (SV/NY) is your only competitive advantage as a knowledge worker—your butt is close to their chair. This runs counter to the other prevailing wisdom about SV/NY, which is that those areas are hubs—and essential to the tech industry—because the world's top talent is drawn to it. So which is it?

There are multiple layers. I think SV will remain a hub from a commercial standpoint, so if you're fishing for VC money that's still where you want to be.

From a purely technical standpoint, we'll see, but tbh, as others have said, outsourcing has been happening for decades now and if anything the wave is currently retreating.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#55

Post by cameronbrown »

ncphillips wrote: post #31
cameronbrown wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to 80s coal miners and factory workers.

It's not a great comparison. Coal mining isn't knowledge work.

What - why?! Because knowledge work is more important for some reason?

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#56

Post by dudul »

vcanales wrote: post #40
davedx wrote: post #7

Seems like this article ignores the gigantic wave of out-sourcing throughout IT that already happened in previous decades and in many cases returned to near-shore / onsite work. What you actually see if you look at remote work job boards is many (if not most) companies in say, the USA, want remote people from the USA (or at least the same timezone as the USA). I think this is what will happen in other countries too.

In my totally unscientific assessment of remote job boards, US companies seem to be the only ones requesting US-only applicants, and I have no insight as to why this happens. In my -South American- country the trend is to look outwards if you're hiring remotely; European countries seem to fit this description too.

European countries are outliers due to EU regulations. Any EU "citizen" can work anywhere in the EU, so pragmatically speaking, why would you only want to hire Spanish people instead of opening the door to French, Italian or German candidates? It comes at literally zero cost to the company.

Some industries are heavily regulated in the US and having non-US based employees can become a real headache for US companies. A lot of US companies have background check as part of their hiring process, pretty hard to do for someone not US-based.

Also, if you target only the continental US you're already talking about companies that may be spread across 4 major timezones. If you start including Europe you're now dealing with people that are gonna be more than 6 hours removed from your HQ's timezone.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#57

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ryanisnan wrote: post #17

This article seems to ignore the fact that working with people in vastly differing timezones can be a real nuisance. Yes, it can also be a boon for some positions, like follow-the-sun type SRE or customer support, but for a lot of positions, having people working massively different schedules is a real challenge. It can absolutely work, given the right async workflows, but it can also absolutely fail. I'm inclined to…

Almost my entire (small) company is based in NYC, but we have one programmer in Europe. He just adjusts his schedule to US Eastern Time hours. Might be harder if he was in Australia, but that still leaves a lot of flexibility.

Heck, as I'm writing this, it's 11:20 am where I live, and I just overheard my sister get out of bed in the next room. Last night, she was taking an online MCAT prep course until after I went to bed around midnight. She could easily work in a different timezone.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#58

Post by Communitivity »

beager wrote: post #19

The implication from this litter of thinkpieces on HN is that proximity to a tech hub (SV/NY) is your only competitive advantage as a knowledge worker—your butt is close to their chair. This runs counter to the other prevailing wisdom about SV/NY, which is that those areas are hubs—and essential to the tech industry—because the world's top talent is drawn to it. So which is it?

Both?

As someone who is unable to move to California due to family, I've always seen the biggest benefit I am missing to be not applying to jobs close by, but being the proximity to people I can connect with who can help me (and my ideas) grow.

It's an old cliche, but true, that if you surround yourself with people smarter/better than yourself then you will likely get better yourself; conversely, if you are the smartest person in the room on X (no one is the smartest in the room on everything), then there is no forcing function driving you to get better other than one you artificially create for yourself.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#59

Post by austincheney »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #20
popotamonga wrote: post #2

It also means i can take someone else's job. It balances out.

The more highly qualified you are the more at risk to offshoring your job is. A long time ago, Albany Molecular, a contract research organization, highlighted they were based in Albany, NY. A shithole, yes, but a shithole with cheap cost of living. Nowadays, the PhD jobs are based in Shanghai, Szeged and Hyderabad. The only thing that's left stateside is regulatory functions and support. You don't need a PhD for that…

Speaking to web technologies specifically I have found this to be opposite at my prior employers. There is a lot of incompetence in web related technical jobs which makes it hard to trust new candidates/employees and offshore employees tended to be less trust worthy in regards to competency.

At my current employer, though, the offshore developers in India have really found the secret sauce and are really nailing productivity and code quality to the danger of US employees.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#60

Post by sabujp »

remote work should mean that software engineers should get payed exactly the same anywhere on earth. If they had to go through the same interview process to get a job and are literally doing the exact same job then they should be payed the same as a SWE in SV or NYC
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