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U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

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Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#31

Post by gambiting »

mcfly1985 wrote: post #21
gambiting wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a citizen of a country that was invaded and taken apart multiple times in the last 200 years(Poland) - no, that's a very noble idea, but in practice that doesn't always work. Poland has survived in the shape that it is mostly because people were able to move and cultivate the Polish language, culture and heritage elsewhere temporarily. We even had a government-in-exile for a while in London, at the time when Polan…

Sure am glad the people who fought the revolutionary war against England didn’t think like you.

I feel like you're trying to be inflammatory just for the sake of it. There are good reasons why Poland and Polish people couldn't fight like Americans did against the British, it would turn into an essay if I wanted to list them all. But I think most importantly, that approach worked - we have harboured Polish culture wherever we could and now we're a major country of 50 million people.

Not to offend anyone, but Americans haven't really demonstrated any ability or will to fight for their rights as a nation in the past 100 years, this posturing I see all the time from Americans about freedom is like a peacock displaying its feathers, not having done anything to earn them - you were just born with them.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#32

Post by [deleted] »

petermcneeley wrote: post #14
mcfly1985 wrote: post #4

Um, no? At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for changing it for the better? The citizens of Hong Kong need to stay and fight for the rights they desire, not run away to another country.

Even America was created by people fleeing England and then breaking it off from the British empire (using a violent uprising). They didnt fix England.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#33

Post by dbcurtis »

mcfly1985 wrote: post #21
gambiting wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a citizen of a country that was invaded and taken apart multiple times in the last 200 years(Poland) - no, that's a very noble idea, but in practice that doesn't always work. Poland has survived in the shape that it is mostly because people were able to move and cultivate the Polish language, culture and heritage elsewhere temporarily. We even had a government-in-exile for a while in London, at the time when Polan…

Sure am glad the people who fought the revolutionary war against England didn’t think like you.

That is an overly simplistic analysis. The American colonies had strategic resources and positioning available to fight. Poland at the time did not.

Examine Hong Kong’s strategic resources at the moment and tell us how you would deploy them in a fight.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#34

Post by danielrpa »

spacephysics wrote: post #10
monkeyfacebag wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel similarly about the citizens of North Korea?

That’s a poor comparison, Hong Kong and North Korea are vastly different circumstances. If we’re looking at human rights violations (North Korea), then the world stage should be involved, not a singular country. The Hong Kong circumstance isn’t a human rights violation, more of a diplomacy incident. What about mass surveillance, isn’t that a human rights violation? I would like it to be, but if that were the case, th…

"Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,"

This is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Imposing a dictatorship on free people is a violation of human rights.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#35

Post by luckylion »

dx87 wrote: post #23
mcfly1985 wrote: post #4

Um, no? At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for changing it for the better? The citizens of Hong Kong need to stay and fight for the rights they desire, not run away to another country.

It doesn't have to be for altruistic reasons, I'm betting the USA would benefit from having an influx of immigrants from a developed nation that shares our values.

Possibly, but Americans might also be amazed at the level of inequality and hyper-capitalism HK represents, with the elite rich beyond belief and the lower class living in cage homes on a few sqft.

The difference isn't quite as large as the one between the US and European countries, but it's significant.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#36

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dbcurtis wrote: post #33
mcfly1985 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure am glad the people who fought the revolutionary war against England didn’t think like you.

That is an overly simplistic analysis. The American colonies had strategic resources and positioning available to fight. Poland at the time did not. Examine Hong Kong’s strategic resources at the moment and tell us how you would deploy them in a fight.

America also had the financial and military support of France.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#37

Post by adventured »

petermcneeley wrote: post #14
mcfly1985 wrote: post #4

Um, no? At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for changing it for the better? The citizens of Hong Kong need to stay and fight for the rights they desire, not run away to another country.

Even America was created by people fleeing England and then breaking it off from the British empire (using a violent uprising). They didnt fix England.

> They didnt fix England.

Eventually they did, in a roundabout way. The rise of the US, causing Britain to lose its lucrative colonies (and the future potential value of their North American holdings), helped break the British Empire. They could not sustain their empire with its shrinking assets. Empires bloat, ossify and become more expensive to maintain over time. To counter that, you need an outsized injection of new value coming in, which the North American colonies could have potentially provided. At best it might have bought the British Empire some more time.

In this case fixing means returning Britain to being a normally functioning nation state, instead of an overseas, overstretched empire.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#38

Post by sgift »

dbcurtis wrote: post #33
mcfly1985 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure am glad the people who fought the revolutionary war against England didn’t think like you.

That is an overly simplistic analysis. The American colonies had strategic resources and positioning available to fight. Poland at the time did not. Examine Hong Kong’s strategic resources at the moment and tell us how you would deploy them in a fight.

Also, distances were vastly bigger (maybe that's included in positioning?). England had to ferry troops and material over the Atlantic at a time when a ship voyage was long and could very well end in disaster. China could move troops over in a matter of days without any real risk.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#39

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

dx87 wrote: post #25
phkahler wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really the same situation in NK. But also the U.S. became what it is through standing up to the Brits. This goes for people too, at some point we all need to stand on our own. The U.S. isn't the worlds parent to run home to.

The Brits were also on the other side of the ocean, and we had substantial military support from the French. Things probably would have turned out differently if the UK could literally drive down the road to the colonies.

Ireland provides a good example. There were many Irish rebellions in the period from 1676 to 1876 (+- 100 years of American Revolution) some even with French support. However, Ireland was in England’s back yard and the English were determined to hold onto it and all the rebellions were brutally suppressed.

Re: U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

#40

Post by sephlietz »

mcfly1985 wrote: post #4

Um, no? At what point are the citizens of a country responsible for changing it for the better? The citizens of Hong Kong need to stay and fight for the rights they desire, not run away to another country.

At what point are the people having heart attacks responsible for stopping them? The people having heart attacks need to treat them themselves, not run away to a hospital.
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