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Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

nature.com

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Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#21

Post by kranner »

deathgrips wrote: post #19
dTal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. It can be expensive. It can stop working, from tolerance. It can have unpleasant side effects. A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior. And your closing sentence was unnecessarily combative.

>Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. I doubt these are a real problem for people who have a modicum of conscientiousness. >A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior If you think that big bad pharma companies are keeping people from taking one-time…

> I doubt these are a real problem for people who have a modicum of conscientiousness.

What does conscientiousness have to do with it?

You might need to travel or transit through a country which prohibits carrying them. Now you have to cancel the trip or go without the medicine.

> by all means come up with a one-time cure on your own

This is not helpful. People have the right to ask questions without being asked to devote a lifetime to develop some arbitrary authority (which would then in any case bias them to look for positive results).

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#22

Post by PoachedSausage »

deathgrips wrote: post #19
dTal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. It can be expensive. It can stop working, from tolerance. It can have unpleasant side effects. A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior. And your closing sentence was unnecessarily combative.

>Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. I doubt these are a real problem for people who have a modicum of conscientiousness. >A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior If you think that big bad pharma companies are keeping people from taking one-time…

>modicum of conscientiousness.

Is that common in people suffering from mental ill health?

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#23

Post by PoachedSausage »

joeberon wrote: post #12
dr_dshiv wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more about the context of the trip? Typically mindset and setting have a big influence. Were you in a safe environment with people you like and trust? Thanks.

Yes, first time was on a canal boat (EDIT: my father-in-law's boat, but he was away) with just my wife. Very safe and secure setting. Second time was at a very small psytrance festival with my wife and her parents. I trust them completely and they are both very nice, and there were not any scary people about.

Also hoping you move towards recovery and it sounds like you have good people in your life to support that.

I would say that a festival (even small and friendly) is possibly not the ideal place to take psychedelics, unless you're very experienced. If you are particularly prone to paranoia, it can surface with psychedelics (even Cannabis) even in good settings.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#24

Post by joeberon »

PoachedSausage wrote: post #23
joeberon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, first time was on a canal boat (EDIT: my father-in-law's boat, but he was away) with just my wife. Very safe and secure setting. Second time was at a very small psytrance festival with my wife and her parents. I trust them completely and they are both very nice, and there were not any scary people about.

Also hoping you move towards recovery and it sounds like you have good people in your life to support that. I would say that a festival (even small and friendly) is possibly not the ideal place to take psychedelics, unless you're very experienced. If you are particularly prone to paranoia, it can surface with psychedelics (even Cannabis) even in good settings.

I suffer from diagnosed generalised anxiety disorder (GAD). Weirdly that second trip was actually much more relaxed and enjoyable during the trip than the first alone with just my wife on the canal boat, even if I did almost pass out at the start.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#25

Post by SuoDuanDao »

deathgrips wrote: post #5
presiozo wrote: post #2

I'm kind of hoping this puts the nail in the coffin with researchers trying to separate the psychedelic effects from the anti-depressant effects so that they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day.

If you take an anti-depressant pill everyday and it solves your problem, why is that bad? Are you hostile to medication in general?

I would say if the symptoms reappear when you stop taking a medication, your problem isn't solved so much as the symptoms are being managed. Given that mood disorders can be due to some underlying conflict within the person's psyche, simply alleviating all negative symptoms seems at odds with the goal of getting as many people as possible to self-actualization.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#26

Post by SuoDuanDao »

varjag wrote: post #3
presiozo wrote: post #2

I'm kind of hoping this puts the nail in the coffin with researchers trying to separate the psychedelic effects from the anti-depressant effects so that they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day.

Why are you hoping for that? Is non-hallucinogenic anti-depressant a bad thing in some way?

The profit motive would clearly prioritize finding an expensive medication that must be taken regularly and indefinitely. Psychedelic research up to now is pointing to small numbers of uses having lasting positive effects. There is a fear that research driven by a profit motive will try to not just not investigate this further but actively gloss over this potential medicine.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#27

Post by new2628 »

deathgrips wrote: post #5
presiozo wrote: post #2

I'm kind of hoping this puts the nail in the coffin with researchers trying to separate the psychedelic effects from the anti-depressant effects so that they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day.

If you take an anti-depressant pill everyday and it solves your problem, why is that bad? Are you hostile to medication in general?

Most people I've met who solved their problem in this way seemed, as a side-effect, to have distorted their personalities in noticeable ways. (I am not claiming that this tradeoff is never worth it, but something rarely considered, and usually not noticed by the person taking the medication.)

To be more specific in the kind of distortion I noticed: lack of empathy, shorter attention span, lowered curiosity.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#28

Post by 01100011 »

joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

Similar experience taking LSD(or whatever was on the blotter) when I was a kid. I've done psychedelics since and enjoyed it, but that was my third experience and it was decades before I tried again.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#29

Post by new2628 »

varjag wrote: post #3
presiozo wrote: post #2

I'm kind of hoping this puts the nail in the coffin with researchers trying to separate the psychedelic effects from the anti-depressant effects so that they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day.

Why are you hoping for that? Is non-hallucinogenic anti-depressant a bad thing in some way?

Everyone I've known who took such medication have altered their personalities in noticeable (unpleasant) ways. It may be worth it for the person in question, but one should be aware of it.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#30

Post by PoachedSausage »

joeberon wrote: post #24
PoachedSausage wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also hoping you move towards recovery and it sounds like you have good people in your life to support that. I would say that a festival (even small and friendly) is possibly not the ideal place to take psychedelics, unless you're very experienced. If you are particularly prone to paranoia, it can surface with psychedelics (even Cannabis) even in good settings.

I suffer from diagnosed generalised anxiety disorder (GAD). Weirdly that second trip was actually much more relaxed and enjoyable during the trip than the first alone with just my wife on the canal boat, even if I did almost pass out at the start.

Thinking back, your experience of the seizure thing sounds similar to what a friend of mine experienced, not with LSD but MDMA. It is possibly related to the motion sickness and brain poisoning reflex.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness#Defense_agains...

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