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Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

kateklonick.com

121–130 of 220 posts

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a supreme court case a while ago that enshrined freedom of speech rights for companies, I get the sense that many of the same people that complained about that then, are now advocating for the rights of companies.

Hello there false equivalence. Being upset about money as speech leading to unlimited campaign spending and supporting a company's rights manipulate their own product isn't internally contradictory.

There is actually an equivalence here. Maybe it isn't "money as speech" but it's certainly "dominant market position as speech."

In the former case, one is worried that a company's right to spend their own money and control their own communications (or hire others to communicate on their behalf, which is standard practice), will lead to outsized political influence.

In the latter case, one is concerned that a company's right to control others' use of their product, because they happen to operate a platform that hosts a substantial fraction of the entire public discourse, will lead to outsized political influence.

The private property defense being deployed here is so facile that only a Libertarian could actually believe it. In practice you will not be allowed, for example, to simply buy real estate at a choke point and exercise your private property rights to determine who is allowed to come and go. Public rights of way will eventually be established if you inconvenience the public enough.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on man. Any president is far better than Trump, who just lie and act like there's nothing wrong with it. Trump's twitter feed is full of compeltely false claims and racist comments to anyone he believe is a politcal threat.

The decision to invade Iraq in 2003 still seems worse to me than anything this administration's done. That war was based on a lie and resulted in the death of more than 100,000 civilians and cost $1 trillion.

I share this viewpoint personally. My view of America, and indeed Americans, changed radically and permanently after the Iraq invasion.

It revolts me to see GWB on the talk show circuit, being buddys with Ellen and the media portraying him as some cutesy old geezer on to show off his amateur paintings.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#123
I feel like this is fake or some internal draft that was never going to see the light of day.

But if its real, i wonder what will happen to silcon valley. Part of the reason why internet companies like the united states is the legal environment is conducive to making online services. If that goes away, will companies move to other countries

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#124
post #79

Long overdue, they're publishers just like Google/Youtube and Facebook are publishers. Every conservative who use those services will tell you, they're biased. They've been putting their thumb on the scale for many years, now the chickens have come home to roost. Downvote me to oblivion, I don't care, tonight I'm happy.

"Everyone living in California gets a ballot" is an outright lie. We can address bias once the lying stops.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#125
post #106
post #77

There is no point in me saying this, because people are literally living in parallel universes at this point, but I feel that hatred for Trump and anything associated with the right is blinding people. What most young people or people on the left seem to want very badly is for tech companies to remove viewpoints they disagree with. Unfortunately the reality is that this is in fact political censorship. And it will le…

Indeed in a parallel universe but in the end they'll lose those battles one after the other because they are on the wrong side of history. People on the right need to be more vocal here and elsewhere, we can't let the children and their feelings, run the ship or it'll end badly.

Condescension is not a good look when you're conflating conservativism with paranoid conspiracies and equating really basic fact-checking to censorship.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#126
post #77

There is no point in me saying this, because people are literally living in parallel universes at this point, but I feel that hatred for Trump and anything associated with the right is blinding people. What most young people or people on the left seem to want very badly is for tech companies to remove viewpoints they disagree with. Unfortunately the reality is that this is in fact political censorship. And it will le…

> What most young people or people on the left seem to want very badly is for tech companies to remove viewpoints they disagree with. Unfortunately the reality is that this is in fact political censorship. And it will lead directly to the type of censorship that China has.

Trump is in power and he has repeatedly requested that cable news be censored by the FCC.

2017: https://www.wired.com/story/fcc-chair-finally-says-agency-wo... “FCC Chair Finally Says Agency Won't Censor Trump's Enemies: Six days after President Trump suggested revoking broadcast licenses, FCC Chair Ajit Pai says agency won't act based on content.”

2018: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... “Trump suggests revoking NBC's broadcast license amid attacks on 'fake news'”

2020: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/2017/web/hero_images/Redacte... his campaign threatens to sue TV stations who allow an ad against him to be aired

So just saying, let’s not just blame young people or people on the left. There are very loud right wing voices demanding that the media be censored in their favor as well right now by government force.

Personally I’d be more concerned at this point about government censorship than twitter adding a link to a post. There are many different websites on the internet, but only 1 US government.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#127

How did a professor of Internet law get a hold of a draft EO? Are these things widely circulated before signing?

> How did a professor of Internet law get a hold of a draft EO?

A leak.

> Are these things widely circulated before signing?

Something with this content would probably need to be coordinated between at least White House counsel, DoJ, and counsel for all or most of the agencies being given tasks under it to get the language right and make sure it was as workable as possible given the intent, so it would be in a large number of hands. Even if they were all fairly reliable partisan political appointees (and it’d be unlikely that there wouldn't be a lot of permanent staff involved), those are in some ways the most dangerous since, well, reliable Republican partisan attorneys and people who support a hands-off approach to regulating speech of business entities have a pretty big overlap.

Trumpian corporatists who think that all of society (whether government, business, or otherwise) should be united in reflecting the will of the head of state, at least as long as the current incumbent holds that position, or pay the price for disloyalty, aren't the norm even among Republican partisans. As much as Trump would like to fill the whole administration with them, there aren't enough of them remotely qualified to fill the needed roles.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#128
post #2

If I am to believe the poster, this is a draft of an Executive Order anonymously sent to her. As per: https://twitter.com/klonick/status/1265850206396076033?s=21 The implications are fairly dramatic if this is legitimate and were to be adopted / executed. Specifically it would declare that sites like Twitter and Facebook are subject to the Communications Decency Act by virtue of their editorializing the content vs ac…

> Therefore, this EO places such platforms outside scope of Sec. 230 protection So Trump is trying to tell the courts, via executive order, how to interpret the law? I'm no expert, but I don't think that's how the different branches of government work.

He's not "telling" the courts anything, he's telling the FTC, FCC, etc to interpret 230 as intended, where a social media site can now be interpreted as a publisher and not as a neutral platform if they engage in active editorial decision making (i.e. feed manipulation, shadow banning, editorial injections, etc). If Twitter wants to challenge the Federal Government on this, they'll have to do battle in court. In the meantime, the Federal government will withdraw all paid advertising from the platform if they choose that route. He's also holding the FTC out, which deals with antitrust law. So Twitter could hit 3 different ways. In my opinion, they have far more to lose by fighting this than simply letting users choose who to follow and who to engage with and what speech to listen to.

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#129
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear what you are implying? Because from where I'm standing, it sure looks like authoritarianism to me.

Language matters. Fascism is certainly authoritarian but way, way worse than current matters. It waters down the horrors suffered by those who lived under the yoke of it.

Can you define fascism? Only Italian were ruled by fascism per se, but we use the term to described other authoritarian regimes. Should we wait 50 years and the collapse of democracy to find a new name for this phenomena? Or could this debate be just a diversion?

Re: Draft of Executive Order on Online Censorship [pdf]

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therefore, this EO places such platforms outside scope of Sec. 230 protection So Trump is trying to tell the courts, via executive order, how to interpret the law? I'm no expert, but I don't think that's how the different branches of government work.

He's not "telling" the courts anything, he's telling the FTC, FCC, etc to interpret 230 as intended, where a social media site can now be interpreted as a publisher and not as a neutral platform if they engage in active editorial decision making (i.e. feed manipulation, shadow banning, editorial injections, etc). If Twitter wants to challenge the Federal Government on this, they'll have to do battle in court. In the…

> He's not "telling" the courts anything

Yes, he is. He is telling the FCC, etc., to issue regulations “clarifying” section 230; regulations clarifying law exist specifically to guide the courts in application, and courts grant such regulations (where properly authorized under statute) great deference, which Trump clearly hopes to benefit from.

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