Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 155 posts

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#131

Post by firecall »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #93
ng12 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the post-nuclear world economic pressure is the only tool we have to deal with bad actors. It's why we sanction North Korea, Iran, and Russia.

It's a very bad tool for that particular job, as we discovered in Iraq -- it hurts the most vulnerable members of the society, and does very little to the elites making the policies we don't like.

True.

But it's not the point; The intention is reduce the capabilities of the country as a global influence and generate internal state turmoil.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#132

Post by blackrock »

eastbayjake wrote: post #77
chrisco255 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should go one further and carve out a territory for a New Hong Kong and let them re-build there.

Gov. Jared Polis (D-CO) liked a tweet this week where someone proposed a charter city for Hong Kong in Colorado - the thread shows why that's probably a bad idea, but clearly surprising levels of support outside the Libertarian think tank world for charter cities in the US: https://twitter.com/ariarmstrong/status/1264628307586248704

Omg, that’s awesome! Please do it Governor Polis!

New Hong Kong City, Colorado. I like the sound of that.

Colorado, would become the new Mecca of delicious Cantonese cuisine and Dim Sum eateries. As well as, all the technical, math, financial, and medical talent, that you can extract from the Hong Kongers. Their children would become the future engineers and doctors in America.

It would unleash a new golden age for Colorado! And bring in massive amounts of tax revenue too!

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#133

Post by ww520 »

sangnoir wrote: post #127
ww520 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure it's sanctions or tariffs, just there're $307 billion worth of machine equipment per year they cannot buy directly.

Did you account for value addition? It may be HK is in the middle of electronics value chains that start and end outside of its borders - I imagine Singapore has a similar import/export numbers it makes a lot of hard disks (export) but doesn't make a lot of chips (import). This doesn't imply Singapore is a front for another country

There isn't much of electronic industry in Hong Kong since the 80's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_Hong_Kong

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#134

Post by ww520 »

blackrock wrote: post #126
ww520 wrote: post #108

This is better understood in the context of Hong Kong's trade relating to China. HK import volume 2018: USD $627 billion [1] HK export volume 2018: USD $568 billion [2] The top 2 imports are: (see [3]) 1. Electrical machinery, equipment: US$307.7 billion (53.2% of total imports) 2. Machinery including computers: US$66.4 billion (11.5%) HK has only 7 million people. There's no way it can consume that much import nor p…

Plugging up the China gateway, also kills the billions of dollars in profits, that American companies make in China. Look it up. Qualcomm now makes over 60% of their revenue from China! Just in Intellectual Property royalties alone. Boeing, Coke, KFC, Microsoft, Apple, AMD, Intel, nVidia, Ford, GM, Starbucks, and on and on.. All American companies. These companies depend on China, to make the cream of their profits,…

What these companies do are selling/shipping components to China for assembly and then re-export the final products, which make the biggest revenue and profit. It's relatively easy for these companies to shift the manufacture (assembly) to other countries to keep the same revenue and profit. An India or Vietnam assembled iPhone generates the same profit for Apple.

Foreign companies have difficult time making profit in China due to protectionism. McDonald opened thousands of restaurants in China and had to sell their ownership to Chinese companies last year.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#135

Post by free_rms »

aianus wrote: post #72
chrischen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i meant was it was under British rule prior to China. The British ruler was literally appointed by outsiders. From an American perspective it’s more about losing a territory under Allied jurisdiction. From the local perspective it’s about losing independence rights—though they didn’t really have that right under British rule either.

Towards the end, it was only under direct British rule because China threatened to invade if the British gave them self-governance. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...

"American Columnist Blames China For British Decision"

In 1960, China was in the middle of the Great Leap Forward and like 40 million people were starving to death. The rest weren't doing great, either. Maybe the Brits were really worried, maybe it was a fig leaf. Maybe they were scared communists could win an election.

To be fair, China did almost invade in support of communist protestors in 1967 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots -- but that was during the Cultural Revolution when they were a lot less starving and a lot more psycho. And they still thought better of it.

In any case, the UK still ought to own their decisions.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#136

Post by blackrock »

ww520 wrote: post #134
blackrock wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plugging up the China gateway, also kills the billions of dollars in profits, that American companies make in China. Look it up. Qualcomm now makes over 60% of their revenue from China! Just in Intellectual Property royalties alone. Boeing, Coke, KFC, Microsoft, Apple, AMD, Intel, nVidia, Ford, GM, Starbucks, and on and on.. All American companies. These companies depend on China, to make the cream of their profits,…

What these companies do are selling/shipping components to China for assembly and then re-export the final products, which make the biggest revenue and profit. It's relatively easy for these companies to shift the manufacture (assembly) to other countries to keep the same revenue and profit. An India or Vietnam assembled iPhone generates the same profit for Apple. Foreign companies have difficult time making profit i…

This is not entirely correct.

In the past, while exports from China, was important for foreign companies, the new situation, is that it is increasingly more profitable to sell within China.

Something like, close to half of GM’s profit from auto sales, are to customers inside China. They charge normal worldwide prices for their cars, but the labor costs are a fraction of what it is in America.

This is what GM risks losing, in an ever increasing trade war with China.

For another example, Intel miscalculated during Obama’s reign, and lost out on billions in sales, because the U.S. wanted to restrict advanced CPU server chips to China. What happened instead? China designed their own CPU chips.

iPhone assembly is really not that important, or profitable, to China anymore.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#138

Post by rumanator »

Aunche wrote: post #107
ep103 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's exactly what it is? It is literally one of the main points that people in Hong Kong have been protesting for

If you think that the US is doing this for the protesters, I have a defense contract to sell you. This is in retaliation for China breaking international agreements.

> If you think that the US is doing this for the protesters

Is that really relevant?

I mean, HKers are getting screwed by a massively totalitarian and oppressive regime. Why is the interest of a third party relevant to the Chinese regime's devastation of Hong Kong?

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#139

Post by jki275 »

supernova87a wrote: post #90
spyckie2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founding fathers of the US did not write the US constitution with practical freedom in mind. They wrote it with the principles of freedom as sacred. The battles they fought weren't for being able to buy groceries or walk the streets. They fought the battles over things like the right to not being taxed, to not be under the bank of England's monetary regulations, to have their own voice in the political system and…

Well, I ask again -- the specific proposed laws under discussion don't touch on any of those principles. They're about sedition, secession, national security, terrorism, etc. We have laws about those things too in the US. So is this actually an argument about the influence / authority of China and the extent of their power, or about the specific laws being passed? Or is it about making sure the 27 years left on the c…

Carrie Lam isn't independent. No one in HK is anymore. That's the whole point.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#140

Post by ipiz0618 »

Aunche wrote: post #85
kyrra wrote: post #7

Related: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officially-declares-that-ho... "U.S. Officially Declares That Hong Kong Is No Longer Autonomous WASHINGTON—The State Department has officially determined that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement Wednesday that holds implications for the future of economic ties and could lead to sanctions against China. The State Dep…

Not that I disagree with the act, but I love how politicians are trying to frame destroying Hong Kong's economy as supporting "Human Rights and Democracy."

This is what a lot of Hong Kong people advocated. By treating Hong Kong the same as China, it's hoped Chinese companies can no longer exploit Hong Kong's different system to export stuff cheaper than in China, especially when the economic warfare was going on before.
Post reply on HN