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Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

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Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#91
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elsewhere I've ready that Hong Kong and Taiwan have a lot of differences like Mandarin vs Cantonese. Also Hong Kong has a much higher GDP per capita.

> like Mandarin vs Cantonese Noob question, how much do these differ? Also does it go further, perhaps a difference in culture as well as language?

Quite a bit. I found this video informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2km_z4-1T8

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it made its own laws, had a different style of economy, had much greater freedom. From an outsider's perspective (mine), seems so.

Read up on Hong Kong history. The people of Hong Kong were under foreign rulers pretty much their entire history. This is one of the reasons why you should always fight for what’s right. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. They just didn’t bother to begin fighting until they didn’t like their ruler.

The British rule was more successful because it was governing at arms length. London never flexed like Beijing by actively disqualifying publicly elected legislators and meddling with its internal affairs, eroding individuals freedom and rights.

Eg pressuring companies like Cathay Pacific, Big four accounting firms to take action against employees participating in lawful assemblies and protests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Hong_Kong_prot...

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#93
post #86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree with the act, but I love how politicians are trying to frame destroying Hong Kong's economy as supporting "Human Rights and Democracy."

In the post-nuclear world economic pressure is the only tool we have to deal with bad actors. It's why we sanction North Korea, Iran, and Russia.

It's a very bad tool for that particular job, as we discovered in Iraq -- it hurts the most vulnerable members of the society, and does very little to the elites making the policies we don't like.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#94
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i meant was it was under British rule prior to China. The British ruler was literally appointed by outsiders. From an American perspective it’s more about losing a territory under Allied jurisdiction. From the local perspective it’s about losing independence rights—though they didn’t really have that right under British rule either.

Towards the end, it was only under direct British rule because China threatened to invade if the British gave them self-governance. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...

Towards the end the British tried to increase Democracy as a an anti-PRC political move but efforts were stalled by HK people themselves.

This is a reminder that it’s important to fight for rights everywhere, not just when it suits your interests.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Ho...

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should go one further and carve out a territory for a New Hong Kong and let them re-build there.

Gov. Jared Polis (D-CO) liked a tweet this week where someone proposed a charter city for Hong Kong in Colorado - the thread shows why that's probably a bad idea, but clearly surprising levels of support outside the Libertarian think tank world for charter cities in the US: https://twitter.com/ariarmstrong/status/1264628307586248704

I think the major moral objection people have to charter cities is that they feel exploitative of the host nation. Proposals seem to take the form "we'll take some rich Westerners, and put them in a host nation where they don't have to follow the local rules, and the host nation will benefit because the Westerners will hire them for labor" - it's very hard to distinguish this from colonialism. Few people think it's a bad thing to have e.g. Indian tribal governments, which are indistinguishable from what a charter city would be.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#96
post #86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree with the act, but I love how politicians are trying to frame destroying Hong Kong's economy as supporting "Human Rights and Democracy."

In the post-nuclear world economic pressure is the only tool we have to deal with bad actors. It's why we sanction North Korea, Iran, and Russia.

The CCP knows this and will gladly "rescue" Hong Kong from the "evil westerners" that screwed them over. Of course, Hong Kong will probably taken over by China eventually, so might as well make it very expensive for them.

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#97
post #87

The sad fact of the matter is that Xi has already calculated that and deemed it an acceptable loss in the name of "national security."

I'm kind of wondering if he will step down next year, or find a reason to keep going. (I don't know what the constitutional arrangements are, but assume that he can only have a single 10 year term)

I doubt Xi's going away anytime soon. He got constitutional term limits on Presidency removed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43361276

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#98
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Towards the end, it was only under direct British rule because China threatened to invade if the British gave them self-governance. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...

Towards the end the British tried to increase Democracy as a an anti-PRC political move but efforts were stalled by HK people themselves. This is a reminder that it’s important to fight for rights everywhere, not just when it suits your interests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_development_in_Ho...

> stalled by HK people themselves

From the article you linked, it says it was stalled by vested interests and the CCP. Where does it say it was stalled by HK people?

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#99
post #85
post #7

Related: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officially-declares-that-ho... "U.S. Officially Declares That Hong Kong Is No Longer Autonomous WASHINGTON—The State Department has officially determined that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement Wednesday that holds implications for the future of economic ties and could lead to sanctions against China. The State Dep…

Not that I disagree with the act, but I love how politicians are trying to frame destroying Hong Kong's economy as supporting "Human Rights and Democracy."

Because that's exactly what it is? It is literally one of the main points that people in Hong Kong have been protesting for

Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy

#100
I don't understand why the world in general is worried about Hong Kong being taken over by the Chinese. In 1842, Hong Kong was a chinese territory. It was taken over by the British during the first and second opium wars and then leased out to the British for 99 years. The keyword here being leased out. If now China is wresting back control of its territory, how is that disputed. The people of Hong Kong always knew that their autonomy was only till the time when the lease ends.

Interestingly, When the union flag was raised over Possession Point on 26 January 1841, the population of Hong Kong island was about 7,450, mostly Tanka fishermen and Hakka charcoal burners living in a number of coastal villages. Today Hong Kong's population is 7.5 Million so 1000 times its original population. So every body who came later knew about the lease and the length of the autonomy.

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