Live data from Hacker News

Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

techcrunch.com

591–600 of 1001 posts

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#591

Hm, is fact checking solved problem? I remember someone here had their game flagged just because it referenced SARS-CoV-2. I hear almost daily horror stories of youtube algo's screwing up content creator. As a human, I still struggle a lot to read a paper and figure out what I just read. On top of that, things like the GPT2 from OpenAI might generate very human like comment. Is there no way to consider social media a…

there is no such thing as truth as such; instead there are only theories and their predictive power (you could be in the matrix). so the best thing we have is the scientific method -- as individuals, we can all apply scientific thinking.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#592

Free speech is not just an American constitutional right; many countries throughout the world consider free speech to be a human right. So, yeah, many of us get a bit worked up when people are kicked off platforms, because they are being silenced, sometimes to the point of being shut out of the modern internet entirely (when their rights to a DNS address are comprehensively removed). Hate speech and lies are terrible…

>Free speech is not just an American constitutional right; many countries throughout the world consider free speech to be a human right.

Although virtually none do so in unrestricted fashion. Hate speech, racism, genocide denial and so on aren't protected by free-speech in the overwhelming amount of legislations even in countries with a liberal tradition, and just like any other right free speech is subject to limitations.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#593
post #539

There's an unsolved conundrum I haven't heard mentioned yet. After the 2016 election, there was a thought that too much false information is spreading on social media. This happens in every country and across every form of communication - but social media platforms seem particularly worrysome (and is particularly bad with Whatsapp forwards in some Asian countries). So what should the social media companies do? Censor…

Social media companies don't necessarily need to take a stand. Label any tweet with the word 'vaccine/vaccination' with a link to the WHO (or insert users country health ministry) info on vaccines. There is obiviously a lot of topics to cover (voting rights, flat earth, conspiracy theories etc) but isn't the thing tech companies can do well is things at scale?

You can also go backwards, The problem with social media is that anyone can comment on it. and that's not a desirable trait for complex discussions. I can't tell how many times I've seen a news article and the top post in a forum like here or reddit be some expert explaining the article and indicate the failures of it. This is solvable, a social media for experts, every single link given a rating on its truthfulness. by actual non-anonymous experts. or hell, you can scrape for the link on twitter, have a database of professionals who have commented on twitter on the article and indicate what they said about it. Anyway, I'm just spitballing now so I'll stop.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#594

Free speech is not just an American constitutional right; many countries throughout the world consider free speech to be a human right. So, yeah, many of us get a bit worked up when people are kicked off platforms, because they are being silenced, sometimes to the point of being shut out of the modern internet entirely (when their rights to a DNS address are comprehensively removed). Hate speech and lies are terrible…

Okay, so I think there's some nuance there, I think there's a pragmatic line to draw - I don't think someone has a right to say anything on twitter, I just don't think that's twitters role is to be neutral. But I think there's a line where we go from a product that's curated and moderated - something like twitter, to something that is truly infrastructure. The DNS example is great, I don't think a DNS company should…

Even in the case of DNS, you can still use a local hosts file to use a human-readable name.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#595
post #36

I think this is going to be a discussion thread that is almost inevitably going to be a shitshow, but anyway: There are people who advocate the idea that private companies should be compelled to distribute hate speech, dangerously factually incorrect information and harassment under the concept that free speech is should be applied universally rather than just to government. I don't agree, I think it's a vast over-re…

Free speech for all political factions on major public forums is the cooperate-cooperate quadrant of the prisoner's dilemma. If forums controlled by the blue faction defect and start censoring the red faction, the red faction needs to threaten to retaliate in order to scare the blue faction into cooperating again. It's simple tit-for-tat. This is game theory 101.

Surely, it's clear here that having the actual head of the US government threatening to shut down private companies

The United States President has neither the authority nor power to start censoring Twitter on his own. Right now, Jack Dorsey has far more power over allowed public speech in America than Donald Trump.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#597
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media literacy and criticism classes in middle school?

I used to think this was the answer. I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards. It is documented that textbook manufacturers publish different history and science texts based on the region of the country regarding the civil war or evolution. Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? a…

I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards.

That's fair, it's certainly one of many hurdles that this sort of a solution would have to face.

Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? and will be supported by publishers that feel the same way?

Well I'd probably answer that by starting out with an inquiry on how nihilism is a factor in what is a completely valid question about implementation? A school's ability to fund this kind of program from textbooks to technology to training staff and instructors has to be considered, this type of educational program doesn't happen in vacuum.

So I'd say you're right to ask questions about the disparity in school funding and how it would affect a media literacy curriculum-even if I'm not sure it's particularly accurate to describe such questions as "nihilist", they're completely necessary. But by no means am I intending to make any sort of value judgement about how successful this school or that school will be by merely suggesting taking a stab at introducing media literacy into public schooling.

To the questions of publishers, excellent question again. Maybe there are some models already out there worth exploring and iterating upon to maximize the value across the various school systems and school models (public, montessori, et al), a few people have commented that there are comparable programs where they live, I'd be curious to see if there are systems worth replicating in this thought experiment.

I think you raise excellent points here, all things said.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle, social media has had a net negative effect on a LOT of people. There's people that have had a big positive effect to. So, it's not obvious where it ends up on net if that even matters. But, yeah. There's a lot of people that would be better off not on social media. But it's so addictive that they can't help themselves. I, for one, have stopped using social…

>(unless you consider HN social) Yes, yes it is. What else would it be? What's the difference between sites like HN and reddit, and facebook?

I think one place HN falls short of what I think of as social media is that there's no following of individual accounts, that creation of networks and personalized feeds feels like part of the core of what separates social media from simpler forums. Reddit was closer to just forums as well but subreddits allowed you to more directly curate and associate between groups, now every user basically has their own little subreddit they can post on and people can follow and join.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DT doesn't "rely on twitter for his political survival", any platform he goes to all his supporters would happily follow while gleefully trashing twitter on their way out the door. > Nor does he have any real regulatory authority that could be employed that wouldn't also bite him back I'm not convinced of that. Trump has repeatedly shown he is willing to exercise executive authority to the fullest extent possible and…

> DT doesn't "rely on twitter for his political survival", any platform he goes to all his supporters would happily follow while gleefully trashing twitter on their way out the door. they wouldn't, and even if they did it would be a helpful change. society's legitimization of twitter (a brand whose logo is on so many unrelated products, billboards, flyers, advertisements etc) is what makes his disinformation on that…

> they wouldn't

I mean the influencers would never voluntarily cede a legion of followers but they'd absolutely and vocally support Trump if he moved to a different platform and all his fans would create accounts on that new platform if they didn't have one already.

> society's legitimization of twitter...

We're in complete agreement there, it's a tough cultural problem, not sure how we solve it without just teaching the next generation to be highly skeptical of social media platforms.

> he's siloed to somewhere that is obviously just for his supporters, it will have far less of a dangerous effect

I don't think it makes much difference, it costs nothing to just "exist" on twitter even if you engage primarily on a different platform, twitter would just become one of many targeted dumping grounds for all the crap they cook up in the silo. Honestly I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, but I think it's their next logical step, something like a mainstream 4chan.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#600

Can this even be considered a free speech issue? They aren't deleting his tweet, only displaying it alongside a fact check. Of course you can try to call into question the impartiality of the fact check but that is a long way from not deciding not to show the content.

And if he decided to "close" Twitter, it would actually be a clear case of censorship from the government and a violation of free speech.

Twitter is merely labelling a tweet as being factually incorrect, it's not hiding the content.

Post reply on HN