Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#581

Post by 13415 » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

donw wrote: post #445

Loughla wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask some oracle what "fact" is and shun every other point of view? This statement concerns me, greatly. Its implication is that facts are merely point of view statements. That is just, well, it's just wrong. Facts are facts. The truth is the truth. They don't care what your beliefs are. If it is empirically true, then it is true. Why and when did it become okay to hand-wave and dismiss anything you didn't believe i…

Oh, I would disagree with that. It is amazingly easy to lie with statistical "facts", through careful sampling, use of technical language, and overly broad or narrow definitions: https://medium.com/@hollymathnerd/how-to-defend-yourself-fro... I could write a "factual" article claiming hundreds of mass shootings in 2020 (obviously false). I just need to define a "mass shooting" as an incident where four or more people…

You're making a strong statement in favor of fact checking.

People can lie with statistics and people can lie without statistics. The latter is much easier, but the former is possible, as you lay out.

That's why we need to check whether an alleged fact is true, or at least can be confirmed from multiple sources of evidence so it can be accepted as true for the time being. We can also check statistics for anomalies and errors. Statisticians do that all the time.

All of that is fact checking.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#582

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #265

bt1a wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aye but with no one in charge, how can the masses protect themselves against ever-increasing disinformation campaigns?

Mass disinformation campaigns become more expensive and difficult to orchestrate if you have to target them at zillions of decentralized forums, each with their own moderation policies and local cultures.

But you don't have to do that, any more than an invading army has to occupy all centers of power at once. And people aren't going to spread across zillions of decentralized forums because people put value on network effects, and larger networks are worth more than small ones.

Thus Facebook isn't one giant blob of people yelling at each other, but has huge numbers of groups where people can meet, while also being able to find/contact almost anyone else. Of course I participate in small decentralized forums relevant to my specific interests/hobbies, but I don't only watch those, and you probably don't either. That would be like only ever reading local news and skipping news about your state/country/international events. You can do that but you'll be putting yourself at a big disadvantage, which most people prefer not to do.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#583

Post by anewdirection » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #283

In a lot of European countries nazi speech is forbidden, and I would posit that it works: the police murders less minorities, the difference in earnings and life expectancy are narrower, and generally violent deaths are lower. Maybe it's time for the US to become a member of the international community, by adopting common codes.

So censoring hitler online means less police violence?

Please do show me the data.

Baseless nationalism is just as unwelcome from any country as it is fron the USA. Stop it.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#584

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

sparkie wrote: post #252

bt1a wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aye but with no one in charge, how can the masses protect themselves against ever-increasing disinformation campaigns?

Idea: put a monetary cost on publishing information. Receiving spam should be profitable. Disinformation campaigns will be costly. If the information is useful and worth reading, the viewer will pay back the publisher, an amount which covers the initial publishing cost and additional revenue for the publisher. Conversely, if the information is garbage or incorrect, the viewer will not pay the fee and it will be a los…

Equivalent to silencing poor people, which was probably not your intention.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#585

Post by 13415 » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

2019-nCoV wrote: post #316

Loughla wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask some oracle what "fact" is and shun every other point of view? This statement concerns me, greatly. Its implication is that facts are merely point of view statements. That is just, well, it's just wrong. Facts are facts. The truth is the truth. They don't care what your beliefs are. If it is empirically true, then it is true. Why and when did it become okay to hand-wave and dismiss anything you didn't believe i…

How can a statement about the future be empirically wrong?

You wait long enough and then check whether the prediction was true? If not, the prediction was false.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#586

Post by anewdirection » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #113

swebs wrote: post #6

Good, I hope this forces them to decide whether to be neutral platforms or publishers. They've been having their cake and eating it too for far too long.

I hope they take Trump head-on, and declare an affirmative right to freedom of the press that does not violate safe-harbor policy.

Why? Thats the whole problem.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#587

Post by sixstringtheory » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

doublesCs wrote: post #53

Cue republicans outraged at the president's attack on the first amendment. .. Lol joking, they love it.

Not like there’s any real impact here. Now if Twitter were in the cake business, it’d be a national security imperative to defend their rights as a private entity.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#588

Post by anewdirection » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #97

I'm old enough to remember when conservatives accused the left of being against "free speech".

It switches sides every 15-25 years, as youd notice, surely.

Parties have little in common with what they were even 20 years ago.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#589

Post by tom-thistime » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

I don't always see eye-to-eye with the President, but closing down social media platforms sounds like a win for the country. Tough, bitter medicine but exactly what we need in the long term.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#590

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 27, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #36

I think this is going to be a discussion thread that is almost inevitably going to be a shitshow, but anyway: There are people who advocate the idea that private companies should be compelled to distribute hate speech, dangerously factually incorrect information and harassment under the concept that free speech is should be applied universally rather than just to government. I don't agree, I think it's a vast over-re…

[deleted]