Anyone else wonder why legitimate, thoughtful responses are being downvoted?
Wumao aka the 50 Cent Party is "In Da Club."[1]
Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
41–50 of 155 posts
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
This law, if implemented fully, will effectively demolish the “one country, two systems” agreement, which has been the basis of Hong Kong’s stability and success for the last 23 years. The Beijing government is pulling out of their side of the deal they made in 1997. What will happen next is not something I can predict, but history shows us some of the things that can happen when communist parties impose their rule o…
But as I understand it, the "2 systems" has to do with economic and political governance. I see nothing in those laws about changing the financial or economic systems of the country that would lead businesses to gulp and say no thank you?
> But as I understand it, the "2 systems" has to do with economic and political governance
What part of "having laws forced by China" is separate political governance?
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#43Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#44I read all these headlines, but when I then followup to read more about the text of the proposed laws [1], I have a hard time seeing that aside from freedom of speech infringements (and ability to imprison, fine based on those -- which are clearly a bit vague in terms of enforcement, but otherwise as bland as a lot of US legislation), these laws are not egregiously different from what exist in some other countries. A…
First of all, the law has been used in China to persecute political dissident. (Political dissident in that case is anyone who expose any problems in the country or being vocal about particular problem in the society or government)
Second, CCP is planning to bypass Hong Kong Legislature to implement this law as an amendment to the Basic Law (Like an HK constitution). This is completely decided by the CCP government and Hong Kongers has no say over it.
Third, Hong Kong has no universal suffrage for its chief executives and Legislative Counsel. In this case, there is no checks and balances. With some draconian law (see National Security law and the previous public emergency ordinance) and lack of checks and balances, Hong Kongers are deeply concern about their freedom in all senses.
Lastly, police brutality and the mass persecution on pan-democratic individuals also spooked Hong Konger's confidence on the city itself and its autonomy. The HK HangSeng Index dropped 5% on the first day. Then massive influx of Chinese money came into the market the next day to prop the market up.
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#45And the real losers in this fight here are Hongkongese citizens, who fought for their freedom and ultimately are losing it, on top of facing an economic crisis.
> who fought for their freedom and ultimately are losing it
Okay so lets rewind like a year ago, what did you or anyone realistically think was going to happen?
100% of the will of the people can only make up for a fraction of the political consensus in Hong Kong, with corporations making up the rest. This isn't unique to Hong Kong, The City of London within London has a similar form of representation.
The corporations derive their power and hegemony from mainland China.
The Chief Executive (Head of State) is appointed unilaterally by Beijing.
The politics are interesting but if you were a betting man, what are your odds for any outcome?
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
The CCP can now afford to sacrifice HK, their economy is now much larger than it was in 97.
They can't. For one thing they desperately need the dollars that flow through Hong Kong. The GDP size is now among the least valuable aspects of Hong Kong as it pertains to China. That has never been primary. Hong Kong is the economic staging point that much of the world uses to enter China's economy. Think of it as a translating middleman, that the world uses to convert from foreign market-based economics to China's…
They're positioning Shanghai for that. Shanghai was something like a free city until WWII.
I think things escalated in Hong Kong much quicker than the CCP wanted--Shanghai isn't ready to take its place. But Shanghai is the long game, and business leaders in HK know that.
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#47Related: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officially-declares-that-ho... "U.S. Officially Declares That Hong Kong Is No Longer Autonomous WASHINGTON—The State Department has officially determined that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement Wednesday that holds implications for the future of economic ties and could lead to sanctions against China. The State Dep…
Besides sanctions, what other implications would this declaration realistically have?
It's going to devastate the Swiss watch industry which is already in rough shape from COVID. Hong Kong WAS their No. 1 market.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/11/fashion/watches-hong-kong...
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#48I read all these headlines, but when I then followup to read more about the text of the proposed laws [1], I have a hard time seeing that aside from freedom of speech infringements (and ability to imprison, fine based on those -- which are clearly a bit vague in terms of enforcement, but otherwise as bland as a lot of US legislation), these laws are not egregiously different from what exist in some other countries. A…
I don't think the main problem Hongkongers have with this law is necessarily the content, but the fact it has been pushed on them by an external government which many Hongkongers expected to remain independent from for the next 27 years. From their perspective, having their own government taking marching orders from Beijing undermines the principle of "one country two systems". Aside from the principle of it, there a…
Was Hong Kong ever really independent though?
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
yeah, hopefully they just move to taiwan
Elsewhere I've ready that Hong Kong and Taiwan have a lot of differences like Mandarin vs Cantonese. Also Hong Kong has a much higher GDP per capita.
> like Mandarin vs Cantonese
Noob question, how much do these differ? Also does it go further, perhaps a difference in culture as well as language?
Re: Hong Kong’s security law is going to devastate its economy
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the main problem Hongkongers have with this law is necessarily the content, but the fact it has been pushed on them by an external government which many Hongkongers expected to remain independent from for the next 27 years. From their perspective, having their own government taking marching orders from Beijing undermines the principle of "one country two systems". Aside from the principle of it, there a…
Was Hong Kong ever really independent though?
Well, it made its own laws, had a different style of economy, had much greater freedom. From an outsider's perspective (mine), seems so.