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Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

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Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#521

Post by dragonwriter »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #192
throwanem wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should that be clear? Judging them by their actions rather than their words, it's quite plain that "free speech extremists" are no such thing, except inasmuch as it applies to them. They demand to be free to say whatever they like, and they demand everyone else be required to listen while they do it.

They ARE free to say whatever they like; their problem is that they then have to face the consequences. I mean I can say whatever I want on this platform as well, but if I cross a line my posts will be hidden and eventually my account blocked. And that is fair, it's what I agreed to, and not only that but it's morally just. The free speech extremists confuse freedom of speech with protection from consequences. Intere…

> They ARE free to say whatever they like; their problem is that they then have to face the consequences.

Specifically, the consequence of other people exercising the same freedom of speech, including by deciding not to relay certain speech of the self-styled “free speech” advocates.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#522

Post by AnimalMuppet »

craftinator wrote: post #504
Traster wrote: post #36

I think this is going to be a discussion thread that is almost inevitably going to be a shitshow, but anyway: There are people who advocate the idea that private companies should be compelled to distribute hate speech, dangerously factually incorrect information and harassment under the concept that free speech is should be applied universally rather than just to government. I don't agree, I think it's a vast over-re…

I really appreciate your approach to this argument. You really cut through any strawman fallacies by pointing out that there's a debate along a spectrum about what protecting free speech entails, but that the President needs to have limitations in his power over private companies. I think this final point is not debatable in a legal context; he does not legally have that power.

Darn right he does not have the power.

Either the president does not know the constitutional limits on his power, or he knows them but still thinks it's a good idea to claim power that he does not have. I'm not sure which is worse.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#523

Post by nxpnsv »

yedpodtrzitko wrote: post #456
nxpnsv wrote: post #169

Why not just kick him off for tos violation and be done with it. That would be an article worth reading...

I can imagine a lot of people would start boycotting Twitter after that. Fewer users and their activity means fewer ads displays means fewer $$$ for Twitter.

Hmmm If they also launched some paid model at the same time, I’d consider paying...

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#525

Post by therealdrag0 »

donw wrote: post #445
Loughla wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask some oracle what "fact" is and shun every other point of view? This statement concerns me, greatly. Its implication is that facts are merely point of view statements. That is just, well, it's just wrong. Facts are facts. The truth is the truth. They don't care what your beliefs are. If it is empirically true, then it is true. Why and when did it become okay to hand-wave and dismiss anything you didn't believe i…

Oh, I would disagree with that. It is amazingly easy to lie with statistical "facts", through careful sampling, use of technical language, and overly broad or narrow definitions: https://medium.com/@hollymathnerd/how-to-defend-yourself-fro... I could write a "factual" article claiming hundreds of mass shootings in 2020 (obviously false). I just need to define a "mass shooting" as an incident where four or more people…

I just read the short book "How To Lie With Statistics" this year and it holds up incredibly well despite being nearly 70 years old!

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#526

Post by neonate »

ojnabieoot wrote: post #419
exabrial wrote: post #205

I once got a strike on social media for posting an article about a German doctor that recommended whiskey to cure covid19. It was a joke, and any reasonable adult would know this is false. It's hard for me to feel sorry for companies that go down the fact checking route with algorithms; It always ends up causing more damage than value. 12 years ago we didn't have this problem, and I think that's mostly related to the…

Literally hundreds of people, including children, have died drinking bootleg alcohol being hawked as a COVID-19 cure. It is simply not the case that “any reasonable adult” knows your joke is a joke - that may be the case in developed countries where people have reliable access to actual doctors. But in developing countries this has been a serious problem. Misinformation kills innocent people. A harsh no-tolerance pol…

People are now seriously arguing that jokes should be censored, and by algorithms no less? This is an extreme position.

Why not put them in jail as well, at least until the danger is passed? I mean, they're killing innocent people with their misinformation and this is the worst global health crisis in 100 years.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#527

Post by jungletime »

mgoetzke wrote: post #468
gadders wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not a solved problem when the "Head of Site Integrity" has a history of anti-Trump tweets and called the President a Nazi. And that's just the head of the team. You can see the hard-left and pro-Antifa affiliations of the team outlined here: https://nickmonroe.blog/2019/11/28/dear-jack-twitter-is-poli...

pro-Antifa means Pro Anti-Fascist which means to organise some movement against fascism. Would we really want people to be the inverse ? Meaning would we like them to be more fascist or accepting of fascism ? What exactly happened that AntiFa has become a group that people don't support ? Maybe I missed something there.

By that logic Uranus was named after your anus. See simple. And "The Ministry of Truth" always said true things. And the "Vice and Virtue Ministry" was a noble institution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_and_Virtue_Ministry

Why? because things and people are always named after what they are! See Biggus Dickus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx_G2a2hL6U

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#528

Post by asdff »

tuna-piano wrote: post #133

There's an unsolved conundrum I haven't heard mentioned yet. After the 2016 election, there was a thought that too much false information is spreading on social media. This happens in every country and across every form of communication - but social media platforms seem particularly worrysome (and is particularly bad with Whatsapp forwards in some Asian countries). So what should the social media companies do? Censor…

It's as simple as toning down the virulance and addiction potential that has been baked into social media over the years. Revert to chronological feeds based on timestamp alone, and not sorting based on how many inflammatory comments and shares they have. Ban more pages that produce and share these misinformed posts. These are problems that these engagement algorithms themselves created, and social media companies are too timid to actually solve for fear of affecting stock price.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#529

Post by wccrawford »

chlodwig wrote: post #476
itchyjunk wrote: post #151

Hm, is fact checking solved problem? I remember someone here had their game flagged just because it referenced SARS-CoV-2. I hear almost daily horror stories of youtube algo's screwing up content creator. As a human, I still struggle a lot to read a paper and figure out what I just read. On top of that, things like the GPT2 from OpenAI might generate very human like comment. Is there no way to consider social media a…

It is not at all a solved problem. Fact-checking has the ancient "who watches the watchers" problem. Who facts checks the fact-checkers? And more broadly, censoring harassing tweets has the problem that a lot of activism looks a lot like harassment, and censoring "conspiracy theories" looks a lot like powerful people censoring those speaking truth to power. For anyone who believes that Twitter should be in the busine…

I fail to see how 8, 9 and 11 harass a particular person but 10 doesn't?

Can 15 really sue the person for defamation? Regardless, IMO, the DNC is part of the government and therefore open to public criticism, especially anonymously. This goes for all the other statements here about government bodies and officials.

I'm having trouble processing "tech-bro" as something worth censoring, but I have to admit it's derogatory and aimed at a particular stereotype, and so it's in the same category as the other statements. But it leads me to wonder: Don't all descriptions of a certain group of people end up falling into that category? Where does the line stop? People will (and have, historically) just start using the non-derogatory descriptions as derogatory ones if you censor the ones they currently use.

Re: Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

#530

Post by bobbytherobot »

dvtrn wrote: post #146
tuna-piano wrote: post #133

There's an unsolved conundrum I haven't heard mentioned yet. After the 2016 election, there was a thought that too much false information is spreading on social media. This happens in every country and across every form of communication - but social media platforms seem particularly worrysome (and is particularly bad with Whatsapp forwards in some Asian countries). So what should the social media companies do? Censor…

Media literacy and criticism classes in middle school?

Sure, I'm all for teaching it. It would still face the same issues as other education topics. Use science as an example. It is taught in schools. And yet, we still have a strong anti-science culture in the U.S.
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