As an American it's not surprising at all. Six figures of student loan debt, job insecurity, healthcare insecurity, rampant poverty / homelessness, the most despicable president to disgrace the white house (who didn't even win the popular vote), stay-at-home orders because the U.S. couldn't manage the crisis, lack of community (doesn't help that 99% of the country is sprawl), rampant obesity, and general lack of hope. The U.S. is more and more resembling a failed state, a mere shadow of what it used to be.
A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
131–140 of 469 posts
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#132The nation's been psychologically wrong-footed during an election year where the incumbent is the most controversial president in decades (one who's been impeached, even), the challenging party's primary process has been subjected to accusations of corruption and favoritism (at best) by the presumed nominee's opposition, and been riddled with suspicious errors. That alone would be a memorable storm and a half for our…
America has a profound ability to diagnose individual problems, and an active inability to diagnose social problems. The American psychological industry cannot be let off the hook. DSM-5 is a handbook for how to blame society’s failures on individuals. We need scientific doctors capable of considering not only the realities they are allowed to accept but also the realities of the actually existing world in which thei…
> DSM-5 is a handbook for how to blame society’s failures on individuals
I staunchly disagree with this, this has never been my experience with any of the psychologists/psychiatrists I have seen (I've seen somewhere around 6 over the course of my life).
Blame has never been a component of any psychiatric treatment I have experienced. The DSM is a book of diagnostic criteria to identify the issues you are experiencing, to help guide the provider in finding an appropriate means to help the patient cope with their problems. There is no question of blame; blame is basically irrelevant to the treatment.
I also don't think identifying someone's problem as being a result of society is clinically productive. Is telling a depressed person "Listen, you're just getting screwed over by society" going to be helpful? I think not, because the corollary to that is "and you can't change society, so you're stuck like this".
I do think it is important to consider how society is impacting the mental health of all of its members, but I don't think that discussion belongs inside your doctor's office.
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Makes you wonder why... Come out and tell us. I'd like to hear a broad summary of your position. I do suspect it's a trifle more conspiracy-leaning than you're currently making out. Ending with a dog-whistle like this rather amplifies that impression. (I browse HN with showdead switched on which adds context to some comments that are easy to miss otherwise) I think there's a valid debate to be had about mortality,…
Conspiracy? Please. One example: two hour-long interviews of John Ioannidis from March and April have been removed by YT a few days ago. And he is very careful with picking words and stating opinions. But he happened to foretell (based on reasearch that he was doing at the time) the mortality rate comparable to seasonal flu when everyone was talking about 1-7%. My point is that if you give even slightest attention to…
> the mortality rate comparable to seasonal flu when everyone was talking about 1-7%.
I don't ever remember anything close to 7% being seriously discussed. But also I don't see how people can say "close to seasonal flu" without being very selective with the data they pick. Bear in mind it's become clear that the CDC's seasonal flu figures where high-balled so you see a lot of of comparisons between an unrealistically high IFR for flu with their own favourite low methodology for COVID.
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't compare Sweden to those countries. Not the same density, not the same hubs, not hit at the same time, not the same social comportments. Even compared to France they have advantages and they have pretty close numbers (+30% excess death vs + 33%).
Sweden has a higher density of day to day human interactions than any country with full quarantine lock down. How do the other data points apply to a country that's been on quarantine for months and another that has never been on quarantine? The exponential explosion of coronavirus cases hasn't happened in Sweden and it's not happening so far when people reopen their economies. there's not even a second wave in econo…
The major flaw in your argument is focusing on an official quarantine order. In practice it seems many of the places you mention have an informal quarantine in place. In Florida Miami-Dade county did have a lockdown though the broader state didn’t. It’s also the densest, so most at risk. Nursing homes also took steps way beyond the government order and well before the order. There’s also tons of evidence that people did not adopt initially and are not returning to normal behavior. For example even in Sweden restaurant attendance was down massively even in the absence of an official ban.
You may be right that a more localized or targeted response has almost the same effect as a full lockdown. (Though things are still decidedly not great in Sweden concerning the death rate). But people are taking massive measures even in non-locked down areas, it’s improper to compare that to the status quo ante.
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden has a higher density of day to day human interactions than any country with full quarantine lock down. How do the other data points apply to a country that's been on quarantine for months and another that has never been on quarantine? The exponential explosion of coronavirus cases hasn't happened in Sweden and it's not happening so far when people reopen their economies. there's not even a second wave in econo…
The major flaw in your argument is focusing on an official quarantine order. In practice it seems many of the places you mention have an informal quarantine in place. In Florida Miami-Dade county did have a lockdown though the broader state didn’t. It’s also the densest, so most at risk. Nursing homes also took steps way beyond the government order and well before the order. There’s also tons of evidence that people…
If there wasn't a lock down in Florida like you say and no hospitals were overwhelmed and no exponential explosion of cases happened.... Then that's all the evidence you need to know that flattening the curve was a myth and quarantine was an ineffective solution.
(the same effect happened in Sweden by the way)
I bet you based on these data points that every region that opens it's economy will have the same result. Steady state of cases, no second wave.
Quarantine was pointless. A lot of lives were ruined by the flat curve proponents...for nothing.
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, playing systems-engineer here: we'd call those secondary COVID-19 deaths caused by the either de facto or de jure lock-downs. Why, oh why, are some people so obsessed with lowering the number of COVID-19 related deaths at every possible opportunity? Its weird.
> Why, oh why, are some people so obsessed with lowering the number of COVID-19 related deaths at every possible opportunity? Its weird. Maybe they want to minimize the amount of secondary COVID-19 deaths?
Fair enough, but WHY?
Here is a less contentious example:
1. consider a severe, long drought
2. this will damage the livelihoods of many in the hinterland - farmers and those in the small town that service them
3. many may be driven to suicide.
Would you not agree that such excess suicides are 'caused by the drought'?
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
The very high death rate in Sweden suggests otherwise.
Sweden's death rate is below Italy UK Spain and Belgium all of which enacted full quarantines. Not sure why you're giving incomplete and somewhat sensational fear inducing information.
Just barely below, if you look at the NYT per capita rankings [1]. The full quarantines were also enacted too late.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-m...
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why, oh why, are some people so obsessed with lowering the number of COVID-19 related deaths at every possible opportunity? Its weird. Maybe they want to minimize the amount of secondary COVID-19 deaths?
Fair enough, but WHY? Here is a less contentious example: 1. consider a severe, long drought 2. this will damage the livelihoods of many in the hinterland - farmers and those in the small town that service them 3. many may be driven to suicide. Would you not agree that such excess suicides are 'caused by the drought'?
Yes, but it's not quite the same, because the suicides etc for COVID-19 are not directly caused by the virus, but by our reaction to it, and some believe it's an over-reaction.
I'm not an expert on the actual, real dangers, e.g. how many and who will die, so that's not what I'm concerned with. If they're terribly high, doing what ever is necessary to stop it is right, I consider that obvious. "Flattening the curve" makes generally sense to me, in a "let's make sure our hospital system doesn't collapse" kind of way.
I live in a county of a bit over 300.000 people in Germany. We have 10 known active cases in the county. We're still in a very constrained soft-lock-down, i.e. schools not running normally, half the offices not open, mandatory masks, public services on emergency-only-level etc. We're still taking damage economically, obviously. Lots of people are scared to death in a very real way, and are still afraid to leave their houses.
Is it still the right call to remain in this state today? Will it be when we have 0 active cases, but there are counties nearby that still have more than 0? By saying "well, everything that happens happens because of COVID-19", we're removing our agency from the equation.
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conspiracy? Please. One example: two hour-long interviews of John Ioannidis from March and April have been removed by YT a few days ago. And he is very careful with picking words and stating opinions. But he happened to foretell (based on reasearch that he was doing at the time) the mortality rate comparable to seasonal flu when everyone was talking about 1-7%. My point is that if you give even slightest attention to…
> the mortality rate comparable to seasonal flu when everyone was talking about 1-7%. I don't ever remember anything close to 7% being seriously discussed. But also I don't see how people can say "close to seasonal flu" without being very selective with the data they pick. Bear in mind it's become clear that the CDC's seasonal flu figures where high-balled so you see a lot of of comparisons between an unrealistically…
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200331/covid-19-death-rate...
Literally one of the first links for "covid fatality rate", one from March 31st. They mention 3.5% average estimate from CDC/WHO with 4.8% for highest risk groups. I can't be bothered to find links to original reports and statements though.
Can't really comment about the second part, as I'm not an expert, but while fractions of a percent surely are important from the organizational point of view (e.g. estimating loads in hospitals and such), I believe that in a broader context the phrase "close to seasonal flu" was used to help people relax and stop PANIC!11
Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression
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