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China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

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Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#11

Post by CountSessine »

aebtebeten wrote: post #5
woutr_be wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American entertainment producers trying to play friendly with the Chinese market isn't really 'enabling the communist party' in any meaningful sense of the word I think this is where a lot of people would disagree. Once companies give in to demands of censorship or anything that goes against our Western values, you're basically letting China know that they can get away with it. And to me, that's directly enabling t…

As a capitalist in a third world country, it seems like in principle a bit of competition ought to be good for both the 2nd and 1st largest economies. Remember the Avis "we try harder" campaign?

Except this isn’t commercial competition - it’s a competition in values and the role of the state in people’s lives. It’s Enlightenment values vs thinly disguised fascism. It’s a competition, alright - just be careful which side you’re fighting for.

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#12

Post by nxc18 »

It’s so exhausting having to live through this ridiculous propaganda war. Everyone seems to suck here, but there’s so much finger pointing. The people on the US side of the isle seem to be especially frantic now that it’s abundantly clear they dropped the ball about 100,000 times (underestimate) and trashed their economy in the process.

Can we stop pointing fingers and just take a break ffs? Everything China does the US does, sometimes with variations in degree but most often just with a different label (occasionally with different timelines, but it’s hard to take seriously the idea that US 70 years ago should just be off the hook while we roast China).

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#13

Post by airocker »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10
bsder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer I, personally, have a problem with this. It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. I…

>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent. Just seems normal to me, the only difference is tha…

What if the "value" is bullying/stealing? I think the comment suggests "learn to live with it".

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#14

Post by woutr_be »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10
bsder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer I, personally, have a problem with this. It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. I…

>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent. Just seems normal to me, the only difference is tha…

> You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent.

This is different tho. You can produce a movie that pisses off people, and still have it play in theatres.

If you make a movie that pisses of the Chinese government, not necessarily the people, then that movie won't even be shown in China.

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#15

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10
bsder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer I, personally, have a problem with this. It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. I…

>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent. Just seems normal to me, the only difference is tha…

Who's disconnecting everyone? Have we observed Brazil doing this sort of thing at the same level as China? Australia? Nigeria? Canada? Anyone else other than China?

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#16

Post by nickff »

nxc18 wrote: post #12

It’s so exhausting having to live through this ridiculous propaganda war. Everyone seems to suck here, but there’s so much finger pointing. The people on the US side of the isle seem to be especially frantic now that it’s abundantly clear they dropped the ball about 100,000 times (underestimate) and trashed their economy in the process. Can we stop pointing fingers and just take a break ffs? Everything China does the…

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis...

More to the point, you're engaging in whataboutism, and the fact that one group acted poorly a few generations ago does not excuse current behaviour by another group.

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#17

Post by nxc18 »

nickff wrote: post #16
nxc18 wrote: post #12

It’s so exhausting having to live through this ridiculous propaganda war. Everyone seems to suck here, but there’s so much finger pointing. The people on the US side of the isle seem to be especially frantic now that it’s abundantly clear they dropped the ball about 100,000 times (underestimate) and trashed their economy in the process. Can we stop pointing fingers and just take a break ffs? Everything China does the…

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis... More to the point, you're engaging in whataboutism, and the fact that one group acted poorly a few generations ago does not excuse current behaviour by another group.

The internment camps are still in living memory fwiw.

I don’t know if it’s whataboutism so much as recognizing that China is back to business and the US really isn’t, China published the genetic sequence and made substantial contributions to fighting the disease while the CDC was busy producing faulty test kits, and the US has been systematically undermining the global health system while trying to put blame on the WHO (actively forfeiting our influence there).

I don’t think it makes sense to shit on China for doing a better job than the US at taking care of it’s people (except minorities, but the US isn’t exactly a model there either).

Just to clarify, I’m not about excuses, but I can’t support hysterically pointing fingers when we aren’t even attempting to get our own house in order.

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#18

Post by rmrfstar »

bsder wrote: post #7
Barrin92 wrote: post #2

The article has a very strong "throw enough sh__ and see how much of it sticks" tone to it. Mark Zuckerberg asking Xi for a baby name or American entertainment producers trying to play friendly with the Chinese market isn't really 'enabling the communist party' in any meaningful sense of the word. And Chinese media replaying some CNN clip isn't really evidence of anything either given that you can take everything out…

> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer I, personally, have a problem with this. It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. I…

There's a monopoly angle here too [1].

I remember doing a face-palm when I watched "Gravity." The whole conflict centers around a cascade of space-junk caused by Russia shooting it's own spy satellite. In the movie, the Chinese space station saves the day. In reality, China actually shot down it's own satellite, rendering it's orbit and adjacent orbits unusable for the foreseeable future. [3]

I'm all for international cooperation, but we have to engage with reality.

[1] https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/its-time-to-break-up-disn...

[2] https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/how-bill-clinton-and-amer...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_mi...

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#19

Post by creato »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10
bsder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer I, personally, have a problem with this. It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. I…

>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent. Just seems normal to me, the only difference is tha…

> Just seems normal to me, the only difference is that the other 95% of the world population now have enough cash to vote with their wallets and American companies learn what it's like to operate in a world where different cultures have different values.

This is not Chinese citizens "voting with their wallets", it's the Chinese dictatorship dictating what is allowed to be shown in the country. One unilateral vote.

The equivalent is the US government outright censoring and banning movies. It's hard to even imagine how such a thing would play out because it is so far fetched, yet we (well, at least you) accept it from China. Why?

Re: China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers

#20

Post by misja111 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #15
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release. You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent. Just seems normal to me, the only difference is tha…

Who's disconnecting everyone? Have we observed Brazil doing this sort of thing at the same level as China? Australia? Nigeria? Canada? Anyone else other than China?

How about the USA's most valuable ally, Saudi Arabia?

Anyway, I think many countries would want to do the same as China but they just don't have the leverage to do so.

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