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I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

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Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#181

Post by brigandish »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #178
droopyEyelids wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your point passes a back of the envelope math test. Right now Google makes the second most profit per employee of any large enterprise on earth: $269,000 in profit, annually, per employee. I know of other- successful!- companies that make less money per employee, because they hire people to do customer support. To start your argument, I think you have to explain why Google can not hire more CSRs, even t…

Google is profitable because it has a small number of employees and a large number of customers. To begin your "back of the envelope math test", you should ask: If Google were to hire CSRs until its profit went to $0 per employee per year, how much of an effect would the additional CSRs have on the experience of Google's customers? How many CSRs would that be? How many customers would each one be handling per day? Sa…

> how much of an effect would the additional CSRs have on the experience of Google's customers?

It would go up, probably quite a bit, and the profit would re-emerge but at a lower level per employee.

The real problem is that their scale (in terms of reach, money, customers, political leverage - you name it) is so large that a company could compete or out-compete on customer service and still wouldn't win a significant chunk of their business. That's why they don't need to hire more CSRs.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#182

Post by fogetti »

gkoberger wrote: post #12

This might not be a popular opinion, but I feel like YouTube is doing their best with a really hard problem. I see a lot of people complaining about things like this, but I also see a lot of people complaining that YouTube/Twitter/etc aren't doing enough to take down false/immoral/illegal content quick enough. [1] It really sucks when a legitimate video is taken down by mistake. But it also really sucks when revenge…

Another unpopular opinion:

And that's the exact reason why Youtube should be considered a platform, that Youtube is so viciously fighting now and all the Youtube believers are blindly accepting.

Not that I believe PragerU's videos are factful or informative, but I think the argument by the court that Youtube is not a state actor is completely missing the point, and it only shows how outdated the legal system is in the US, but it doesn't actually reflect on the actual situation, i.e. how much power Youtube is wielding, and how it is censoring and actively blocking free speech.

These kind of decisions shouldn't be granted to any private firms with such user and content size without public, democratic and transparent influence on the decision making.

BTW, all your arguments seems anecdotal to me. Sentences like "I see", "I feel", etc. don't really convince me and should not anyone else either.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#183

Post by colechristensen »

acituan wrote: post #172
colechristensen wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just a thought experiment, does Youtube need to be as big as it is? A few scattered moderation complaints compared to wholesale rate limiting of incoming content... I can only imagine the madness of content producers if YouTube tried that. >Youtube has near perfect knowledge of the warm data of their operations, and use it to optimize user frustration rather than minimize it YouTube content moderation isn't human sp…

> A few scattered moderation complaints compared to wholesale rate limiting of incoming content I'm sure there is already some per-user upload rate limits in place to prevent gross abuse. It is a matter of playing with these parameters. Rate limits don't have to be distributed mindlessly equally globally. Just like in Hacker News or in Twitter, certain proxy variables like the account age and karma scores are used to…

>Zero complaints is a straw-man end-state.

The comment of yours I was responding to

>use it to optimize user frustration rather than minimize it

It is not at all a straw man. You are criticizing nonzero optimization and encouraging minimization. To minimize is to have a goal of zero. What other definitions do minimize and optimize have in the dichotomy you are trying to make here?

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#184

Post by thaumasiotes »

brigandish wrote: post #181
thaumasiotes wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is profitable because it has a small number of employees and a large number of customers. To begin your "back of the envelope math test", you should ask: If Google were to hire CSRs until its profit went to $0 per employee per year, how much of an effect would the additional CSRs have on the experience of Google's customers? How many CSRs would that be? How many customers would each one be handling per day? Sa…

> how much of an effect would the additional CSRs have on the experience of Google's customers? It would go up, probably quite a bit, and the profit would re-emerge but at a lower level per employee. The real problem is that their scale (in terms of reach, money, customers, political leverage - you name it) is so large that a company could compete or out-compete on customer service and still wouldn't win a significan…

>> How many customers would each [CSR] be handling per day?

You need to answer that one before concluding that customers' experience would improve.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#185

Post by judge2020 »

greggman3 wrote: post #175
novok wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might have 1 billion free users, but they definitely don't have 1 billion partners or 1 billion paying customers. Google's customer service is horrible even for organizations that pay them +$10k/month or make them +$10k/month for ad sales, and that is a far smaller number. You would think they could at least scale customer support properly for that much smaller number, but they don't because culturally they do n…

> Google's customer service is horrible even for organizations that pay them +$10k/month or make them +$10k/month for ad sales, and that is a far smaller number. Is this true? As a paying customer for gsuite, the 4 times I've contacted customer service I got someone immediately and they solved my problem immediately. I'm not a big customer either I have one account. I pay them $72 a year.

It's all anecdotal but I also had fast support for my G Suite issues, even when marked at the lowest priority level P4.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#186

Post by ta17711771 »

movedx wrote: post #70
tekkk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they are really doing their best. If other Google's support forums are any indicator of their effort, they are mostly trying to automate the whole process as much as possible which then causes errors like this. Which makes sense from the SV software engineer perspective, but really is unfathomable to the normal user who then has to live in fear if some malicious teenager decides to ruin their channel. I…

> Instead of actually trying to create the best customer service I've worked in high volume customer services. It's not easy for the agents doing the work or the companies operating them. I've worked in multiple call centers dealing with calls and tickets. I've worked in companies in which I dealt with mobile phone bill queries and hardware issues right up to Cisco networking problems and then eventually enterprise g…

If you can't figure out how to scale proper customer service, there's a simple solution: don't grow too large too fast.

I know, blasphemy to the VC crowd.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#187

Post by imron »

gkoberger wrote: post #12

This might not be a popular opinion, but I feel like YouTube is doing their best with a really hard problem. I see a lot of people complaining about things like this, but I also see a lot of people complaining that YouTube/Twitter/etc aren't doing enough to take down false/immoral/illegal content quick enough. [1] It really sucks when a legitimate video is taken down by mistake. But it also really sucks when revenge…

> I see a lot of people complaining about things like this, but I also see a lot of people complaining that YouTube/Twitter/etc aren't doing enough to take down false/immoral/illegal content quick enough.

At large enough scale (e.g. Youtube scale) there will always be people complaining about almost everything.

You can't please everybody, but it's in Youtube's long-term self interest to please the people that produce the content that keeps people coming back to Youtube, otherwise the creators will look towards other platforms (and we're already starting to see this).

> It really sucks when a legitimate video is taken down by mistake. But it also really sucks when revenge porn is left up....YouTube is dealing with two opposing issues

Except here, a third factor is in play - the extortion which caused a legitimate video to be taken down. Youtube's going to need to fix that problem fast.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#188

Post by judge2020 »

acituan wrote: post #172
colechristensen wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just a thought experiment, does Youtube need to be as big as it is? A few scattered moderation complaints compared to wholesale rate limiting of incoming content... I can only imagine the madness of content producers if YouTube tried that. >Youtube has near perfect knowledge of the warm data of their operations, and use it to optimize user frustration rather than minimize it YouTube content moderation isn't human sp…

> A few scattered moderation complaints compared to wholesale rate limiting of incoming content I'm sure there is already some per-user upload rate limits in place to prevent gross abuse. It is a matter of playing with these parameters. Rate limits don't have to be distributed mindlessly equally globally. Just like in Hacker News or in Twitter, certain proxy variables like the account age and karma scores are used to…

> Rate limits don't have to be distributed mindlessly equally globally.

Yet that's what the grandparent comment is suggesting:

> Can’t Youtube say “given the current accuracy/precision of ML based solutions and how much our manual operations can scale, we are going to rate limit the content that circulates to match our ability of giving the best judgment on what videos to take down and what videos to keep”.

YT already does this abuse-prevention, they just lean towards letting more content on rather than less. The grandparent suggests that they start limiting uploads in a way that more regular uploaders (eg. a few videos a day) would feel, which would warrant some explanation or statement from the company.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#189

Post by Animats »

This is extortion. Did Google disclose to you the identity of the party who sent the takedown notice. If not, a lawyer might be able to help here. You have a good case against the other party for extortion, and a weak case against Google for assisting them. There's a strong legal incentive here for Google to disclose the name of the other party, if they are being difficult about doing so. DMCA notices can't be anonymous.

Re: I was blackmailed – any YouTuber could be next

#190

Post by spenthil »

Klinky wrote: post #122
colechristensen wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're living in fear go find a paid platform where you are the customer instead of the product. If you aren't making enough money on YouTube to be able to afford paying someone to host your content and provide better, paid customer service, then you have to consider that the risk of being on a mostly automated, poorly supported platform is the only thing keeping you from losing money, or in other words, is the so…

How does one find ban/review rates for YouTube? Wouldn't this be internal data? Can you provide a link to a public datasource that shows shows outcomes of YouTube's banning/takedown and review processes?

https://transparencyreport.google.com/youtube-policy/removal...
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