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The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

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Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#191

Post by rixed »

jorblumesea wrote: post #138
rixed wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different countries may have different values. Citizens of those countries are educated to value those different (quite abstract) ideals, such as "freedom of speach" in the US, or "economic development" in China. Like a religion, those systems of values are flexible and abstract enough that you can make them mean whatever you want. Then automatically we tend to think of our system of values as better than any other;…

I believe in cultural relativity, but that ends at, for example, mass concentration camps. Your argument is basically "let any country do whatever they want within their borders" and I don't think that makes sense. Or, there are limits to that. I would also argue that the acceptance of totalitarian values as "cultural norms" isn't entirely correct. Historical Chinese culture has little to do with the social credit sy…

I do not think cultural relativism, if you want to call it that way, means that one can never judge what others do, and I'm surprised my comment came across as this.

I'd like to help you realize that despite all your values of freedom of speech, free thinking and so on, this very set of strong emotional values makes you live in a fantasy world where countries/cultures are impersonated by good or bad characters, the actions of which are either justified or not despite they are all equally questionable.

Of course the USA have had concentration camps (China and France also), of course people were interned based on religion or skin color also in the USA (China and France too), of course the USA invaded countries while lying in the face of everybody about the reasons (like France and China also did). I don't know, whatch Powell's speech to the UN about the weapons of mass destruction in a loop until it clicks?

All countries (I included France just because I happen to write this from there) would likely do the same on the same circumstances regardless of their official values, because no country act because of values. Countries are not real characters, they do not act, and have no values. Individuals do and have, and it is important that individuals of the most powerful country in the world would adopt another set of guiding values than "when that's my gouvernement doing it it's Ok but when that's others it's evil". Because they have been subjugated by their ruling class[1] for a long time now, and the consequences have been dramatic.

[1] For lack of a better term

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#192

Post by masnao »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #173
wbl wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harmful action being getting info that will be published in Cell or Nature six months early?

So two questions (not to you, but the general audience): 1. Are you ok if some entity steals your research and publishes it under their name in a venue under their name before you publish it? 2. Are you okay if the entity stealing the research is not similarly liberal with their own research on the same subject?

if the research was published published ongoing, like open source software, it would not be aproblem.

the problem only exists because people want to 1) hold data hostage for money and power 2) only publish success.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#193

Post by OBLIQUE_PILLAR »

COVID-19 affects the entire world. Shouldn't all COVID-19 basically be done on a globally viewable wiki? It's going to take the cooperation of all countries to get through it. I don't understand why the US should hoard any COVID-19 data it has, besides extremely non altruistic ones.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#194

Post by OBLIQUE_PILLAR »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #186
free_rms wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's always 100 with extremely selective outrage. We're hacking them, they're hacking us, yawn. We hacked Angela Merkel's phone, even. This is normal low level stuff.

They are running concentration camps.

I've researched the Uighar thing heavily.

It always bugs me though that the United States has more prisoners than China, despite having a vastly smaller population.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#195

Post by throwitawayfire »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #188
rixed wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which leaves some hope that everybody is not yet brainwashed. Remember, China sequenced the virus and shared the genome with the whole world to help build tests faster. And now they would try to impede research? Also, 9 times or of 10 it takes a long time to get an idea of where an attack is coming from. And independently of what they know, 9 times out of 10 politics won't tell you what they know but what they want y…

> Remember, China sequenced the virus and shared the genome with the whole world to help build tests faster. And now they would try to impede research? The virus came from Wuhan where China has some sort of biological laboratory. The virus has hugely affected Europe and the U.S., but has had comparatively little effect in China. I'm not saying they made the virus and released it. But there will always be suspicion -…

The virus did not come from Wuhan. The first known cluster of cases was in Wuhan. This is where China first identified and then quickly notified the international community that there was a new communicable disease.

Many of the original identified victims had no relation whatsoever with Wuhan, and virologists have traced the virus to several individuals throughout Hubei province as early as November. Virologists tracing the virus history through DNA shows a significant history to the virus before Wuhan.

SARS-CoV-2 shows no signs of having been bioengineered and plenty of markers of cross-species adaptation. Furthermore the closest coronavirus strain known to mankind is significantly (50 years of forced evolution) far from SARS-CoV-2.

Biological laboratories are located in many cities across the world. Given all of the scientific evidence we know about the likely species-jump origins of the virus and its history before Wuhan, it's it a bit of a tired theory (as in definitively unreasonable in the number of required assumptions) at this point that the virus escaped Wuhan's high-containment laboratory?

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#196

Post by OBLIQUE_PILLAR »

jorblumesea wrote: post #78
free_rms wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, the west's covert activities are not limited to benign surveillance. Second off.. aside from the total lack of evidence, why would the Chinese be interested in sabotage here? American discovery of a vaccine means they can rip it off, they're definitely not gonna be paying anyone for it. If we're selling it at exorbitant prices while they give it away practically for free to African countries, that's a huge…

> the west's covert activities are not limited to benign surveillance. Compared to the CCP, it's fairly benign. The example you gave, Merkel's phone, is a textbook example. Spy all you want, but we're not stealing IP or sabotaging power grids (to my knowledge). We're not interfering with other countries' covid response or possibly corrupting medical records. > why would the Chinese be interested in sabotage here? Pre…

"We're not interfering with other countries' covid response" - the US continues to freeze Iran out of the SWIFT system, which means Iran can't buy just about everything.

Iranians will die because of this policy.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#197

Post by OBLIQUE_PILLAR »

GuB-42 wrote: post #58
cat199 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to not share as much information as possible with as many researchers as possible in order to help as many as people as possible. this presumes that the stolen information would be used 'to help as many people as possible'.. Also, 1st country with viable vaccine/treatment/etc will have a huge geopolitical bargaining chip & it will likely be used as such no matter the country of origin.

> Also, 1st country with viable vaccine/treatment/etc will have a huge geopolitical bargaining chip & it will likely be used as such no matter the country of origin. Definitely, but thankfully, it is a positive sum game. First thing, you won't keep your bargaining chip for long. If a country manages to find a vaccine, others will follow soon enough. Besides independent research and reverse engineering efforts, it is…

it would be funny if Cuba finds a successful treatment protocol first.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#198

Post by mc32 »

OBLIQUE_PILLAR wrote: post #193

COVID-19 affects the entire world. Shouldn't all COVID-19 basically be done on a globally viewable wiki? It's going to take the cooperation of all countries to get through it. I don't understand why the US should hoard any COVID-19 data it has, besides extremely non altruistic ones.

Let’s see who else is putting valuable IP it out there.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#199

Post by OBLIQUE_PILLAR »

bt1a wrote: post #15
pessimizer wrote: post #6

Why would they be press-releasing this other than to drive public opinion against China?

While the admin is currently pushing a very negative image against China, I do not believe the FBI would do that so lightly.

Perhaps the current FBI is pure and 100 percent professional now, but the FBI of the 50s/60s/70s would totally do this, and much worse.

Re: The FBI investigating hacking of Covid research by “PRC-affiliated cyber actors”

#200

Post by Larrikin »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #175
Larrikin wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you an infosec expert? You have said that it is impossible to trace origins of hacks multiple times but only offer two shallow points that you would learn about in your first week of a network security class. There are papers out there that have multiple ways of using language to identify specific authors, determine multiple authors, and even decode unknown language. That's my first shallow example and would be a…

>You have said that it is impossible to trace origins of hacks I have not said this. The evidence they have provided makes it equally likely that they've tracked these hacks (correctly or incorrectly) or that they've made the whole thing up. You can't rule out either action. >There are papers out there that have multiple uses of using language to identify specific authors, determine multiple authors, and even decode…

Every single comment on the first page of your history is vehemently defending the CCP, I'd imagine that the faux outrage against accusations across the internet is another signal they use to increase the probability that their model correctly determined the origin.
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