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Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

wsj.com

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Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#671

Post by c54 »

donw wrote: post #667

I think this is perhaps an example, on a grand scale, on why you (generally) can't use technology to solve cultural problems. Before the Battle of Trebia, Hannibal wanted to set up an ambush for the Romans. He gathered 200 of his best troops together, and told them (a) that they were squad leaders; (b) they each should pick 10 of their friends to form their individual squads; and (c) the plan of attack. A modern pers…

This is a great example! Thanks for writing it up. I appreciate especially the 200 number for unaided speech, really puts the power of technologically aided communication into perspective

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#672

Post by pwdisswordfish2 »

ggggtez wrote: post #627
pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Users who just use a phone as their primary computer will still want to able to publich to their millions of followers, and so it wouldn't work to have these millions of people connect directly to this person's device." You have shifted the discussion from small overlay network for friends and family to large overlay network for "millions of followers". Those methods of sharing content with "millions of followers" a…

Your idea doesn't sound particularly tenable. A pay social network that limits you to only your close friends and family, that will have no network effects, have less features, and be more difficult to set up... It's easy for people to point what they don't like about Facebook, but I don't think you are really comprehending why they dominated the social network space to begin with. It's not as easy as making a produc…

Tenable for what? You are injecting your own ideas. Why would I care about the reasons Facebook is popular. The idea I submitted was to make the process of setting up overlay networks easier, not to try to start a web-based business. Making software easier to use is a tenable idea. The ideas you are introducing might not be tenable. However, they are not my ideas. The pattern I see is you introduce some idea, attribute it to me, then shoot it down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#673

Post by spangry »

closeparen wrote: post #585
knzhou wrote: post #457

The degree to which “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” is in effect here is remarkable. If Facebook literally removes anything, then HN is outraged because it’s censorship, paternalism, all that. But if Facebook does not adopt an actively paternalistic attitude where it shows people content that they deem is “good for them” , then that’s outrageous too. Both complaints predictably rocket to the top of HN. Which…

If Facebook followed some deterministic algorithm like "show all content from friends, in chronological order" then I don't think there would be such loud voices calling for it to also solve $social_problem. But Facebook does exercise editorial control, in the service of engagement. It's fair to ask that this curation consider other objectives as well, or at least counterbalance the side-effects it's known to have (d…

I agree. The second you start censoring $VIEW_X, people will start questioning why you aren't also censoring $VIEW_Y. Are you not censoring $VIEW_Y because you endorse it, Facebook? Is Facebook $VIEW_Y-ist? Rinse and repeat for every fringe view.

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#674

Post by kelchm »

fpgaminer wrote: post #299

You know what the internet needs? User agents. We've got this idea stuck in our heads that only the website itself is allowed to curate content. Only Facebook gets to decide which Facebook posts to show us. What if, instead, you had a personal AI that read every Facebook post and then decided what to show you. Trained on your own preferences, under your control, with whatever settings you like. Instead of being tuned…

Yeah, since what the world needs is more echo chambers.

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#675

Post by mindfulhack »

Because I feel that the freely accessible HN should not be considered a glorified comment section for another pay-only news site, here is the article archived in full text:

http://archive.is/cSUlh

(See here for general tips on paywall articles on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20313964)

(Edit: apologies, forgot to click on 'More' button to see previously posted archive links.)

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#676

Post by industriousthou »

fpgaminer wrote: post #299

You know what the internet needs? User agents. We've got this idea stuck in our heads that only the website itself is allowed to curate content. Only Facebook gets to decide which Facebook posts to show us. What if, instead, you had a personal AI that read every Facebook post and then decided what to show you. Trained on your own preferences, under your control, with whatever settings you like. Instead of being tuned…

I mean Facebook doesn't really decide what content I see, I do. I aggressively police my timeline and unfollow people who post garbage content. I don't really need an AI to do that for me...

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#677

Post by kleer001 »

hallambaker wrote: post #664
fpgaminer wrote: post #299

You know what the internet needs? User agents. We've got this idea stuck in our heads that only the website itself is allowed to curate content. Only Facebook gets to decide which Facebook posts to show us. What if, instead, you had a personal AI that read every Facebook post and then decided what to show you. Trained on your own preferences, under your control, with whatever settings you like. Instead of being tuned…

There are models for this that could probably work. Tim Berners-Lee has been working on a scheme called Solid for years now. It is important to realize that Facebook is not the first, second or even tenth of its ilk. FaceBook combines a bunch of ideas from previous systems, in particular MySpace and USENET. It is more or less the third generation of Web Social Media. There is no reason to believe there can't be a fou…

In the context of this discussion Solid sounds amazing. I'd be super excited to tune the social web to my own preferences. Sadly however, I couldn't make heads or tails of this garbage jargon laden website. WTF?

https://inrupt.com

"Time to reset the balance of power on the web and reignite its true potential.

When Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the web, it was intended for everyone. The excitement and creativity of its early days were driven from the notion that we can all participate — and the impact was world-changing.

But the web has shifted from its original promise — and it’s time to make a change.

We can still unlock the true promise of the web by decentralizing the power that’s currently centralized in the hands of a few. How? By using the power of Solid.

Solid is the technically potent, open-source platform built to decentralize the web. Inrupt is the company that’s helping to fuel Solid’s success."

What? How will that help me or my grandma?

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#679

Post by dkn775 »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #610
munificent wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental flaw is this: The primary content no user wants to see any every user agent would filter out is ads . Since ads are the primary way sites stay in business, they are obligated to fight against user agents or other intermediary systems. The ultimate problem is that Facebook doesn't want to show you good, enriching content from your friends and family. They want to show you ads. The good content is just…

I am happy to pay $10 bucks a month for a facebook like service that suggests me engaging, high quality content without any promotional content. I am already getting such service in the form of Android's newsfeed feature on pixel. Its google but its pretty good.

You mean the screen to the left of the home screen? I have noticed a lot of low quality information and some advertising masquerading as articles.

Re: Facebook executives shut down efforts to make the site less divisive

#680

Post by cookiecaper »

jackandrew wrote: post #408
fpgaminer wrote: post #299

You know what the internet needs? User agents. We've got this idea stuck in our heads that only the website itself is allowed to curate content. Only Facebook gets to decide which Facebook posts to show us. What if, instead, you had a personal AI that read every Facebook post and then decided what to show you. Trained on your own preferences, under your control, with whatever settings you like. Instead of being tuned…

We're a small team working in stealth on this exact challenge. Shoot me a note if you're interested in hearing more or getting involved. itshelikos@gmail.com

This type of thing is nothing new, but it's important to recognize that it doesn't take off because it's illegal.

As soon as Facebook realizes you're a risk, you'll get a C&D ordering you to stop accessing their servers. These typically have the force of law under the CFAA.

You won't access their servers, but just read the page that the user already downloaded? You'll still get nailed under the Copyright Act.

"User agents" in the sense used by the OP are as old as the internet itself. There's an active, serious, and quiet effort to abuse outdated legislation to ensure that they never become a problem.

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