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Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

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Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#101

Post by redthrowaway »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #97
redthrowaway wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a total aside, I find it interesting that Wikipedia, which 5 years ago would never be considered a reliable source for a developing event such as this, is now (rightly) considered a good place to go to for up to the hour information.

I've found wikipedia to be an excellent source of news on current events. One of the problems with most "regular" news reporting is that it's very context sensitive. It's a tiny diff of info that assumes that you have already applied all of the previous diffs. If you want to understand a situation well this process can be infuriating. Wikipedia however actually distills down all the info into a complete and coherent…

"Case in point, the wiki article for the Sendai quake/tsunami had very early on listed the number of casualties at an astonishing 6 million."

I imagine that was fixed pretty quickly. Things like that tend not to last very long.

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#102

Post by ErrantX »

redthrowaway wrote: post #50
hop wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was yesterdays news. Those ~50 remaining all evacuated apparently. Also, the Wikipedia "Timeline of Fukushima nuclear accidents" has been reliable for the latest updates - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nucle...

As a total aside, I find it interesting that Wikipedia, which 5 years ago would never be considered a reliable source for a developing event such as this, is now (rightly) considered a good place to go to for up to the hour information.

I'd suggest caution in using WP for this. WP tends to get a lot of activity on current events (I usually don't bother editing them for that reason), this one is less likely to draw on the usual contentious/opinion driven contingent, but it is always a risk.

Quite a lot of "current event" incidents are badly covered on WP until some time after the fact.

Facts and figures could well be very wrong; with lengthy discussion on the talk page ironing it out. There is also a strong western bias in the writing/sources, especially (as it happens) with regards to Japan. Finally; people will tend to write their own interpretations and comment on such events; some of which hangs around longer than it should.

Use with care :)

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#103

Post by danvet »

hartror wrote: post #18
capedape wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

via @W7VOA "S. Korea to ship boric acid to help Japan stabilize nuclear reactors."

You don't need a helicopter to deliver boric acid into the reactors.

But you need tons of additional water if you deliver it with a helicopter.

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#104

Post by InclinedPlane »

redthrowaway wrote: post #101
InclinedPlane wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found wikipedia to be an excellent source of news on current events. One of the problems with most "regular" news reporting is that it's very context sensitive. It's a tiny diff of info that assumes that you have already applied all of the previous diffs. If you want to understand a situation well this process can be infuriating. Wikipedia however actually distills down all the info into a complete and coherent…

"Case in point, the wiki article for the Sendai quake/tsunami had very early on listed the number of casualties at an astonishing 6 million." I imagine that was fixed pretty quickly. Things like that tend not to last very long.

It was only that way for a few hours, but the magnitude of the inaccuracy is important to keep in mind. No matter how good wikipedia gets it's always important to use critical reasoning to make sure what you're reading is actually reliable information.

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#105

Post by InclinedPlane »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #97
redthrowaway wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a total aside, I find it interesting that Wikipedia, which 5 years ago would never be considered a reliable source for a developing event such as this, is now (rightly) considered a good place to go to for up to the hour information.

I've found wikipedia to be an excellent source of news on current events. One of the problems with most "regular" news reporting is that it's very context sensitive. It's a tiny diff of info that assumes that you have already applied all of the previous diffs. If you want to understand a situation well this process can be infuriating. Wikipedia however actually distills down all the info into a complete and coherent…

As a followup: At some point while I was trying to keep my annoyance in check at being forced to listen to CNN in the airport terminal during a layover on my trip back from PAX East in Boston I had a realization about traditional media. It's essentially just a giant example of the broken telephone game. The information from the people who actually know and understand what's going on is transferred in relay-like fashion through spokespeople, to reporters, to copy writers, to editors, to anchors. Sadly most of the people involved in this chain do not have any expertise in the subjects at hand and do not have robust mechanisms for ensuring the accuracy or utility of their reporting.

In the end you get the classic "purple monkey dishwasher" problem of too many questionably reliable nodes on an information route, and then amplified by the prejudices and predilections of everyone involved plus the needs of the news organization to drive traffic in order to maximize revenue.

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#106

Post by [deleted] »

jrockway wrote: post #65
cookiecaper wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is simply that people don't know Japanese geography, which isn't all together too surprising. There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. They just hear "earthquake in Japan" and ask the people who live in Japan if they're doing alright. My brother lives in Auckland. We had a lot of…

There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. I'm going to agree here. I went to high school in Tokyo and I hadn't heard of Gifu until patio11 mentioned it. This is not really a problem due to the availability of these things called "maps", however.

[deleted]

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#107

Post by josephcooney »

jrockway wrote: post #65
cookiecaper wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is simply that people don't know Japanese geography, which isn't all together too surprising. There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. They just hear "earthquake in Japan" and ask the people who live in Japan if they're doing alright. My brother lives in Auckland. We had a lot of…

There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. I'm going to agree here. I went to high school in Tokyo and I hadn't heard of Gifu until patio11 mentioned it. This is not really a problem due to the availability of these things called "maps", however.

This is not really a problem due to the availability of these things called "maps", however.

And the availability of this thing called 'the periodic table' means everyone knows and understands basic chemistry.

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#108

Post by runningdogx »

tptacek wrote: post #26
pauldino wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BBC reports a suspension http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739

BBC also reported 1,000 mSv measured at the plant. Pretty sure they got that wrong too.

(According to the IAEA) There was one measurement of 400mSv between reactors 3 and 4 [1], I think which actually occurred sometime on monday GMT (possibly Tuesday morning in Japan), which prompted the evacuation. It fell again, which probably prompted the authorities to allow workers back in.

The 1000mSv figure is most likely a misreporting of the transient 1008 or 1080uSv (I recall it had an 8 in it) measurement reported over the weekend, or some subsequent measurement... there have been lots in and around the plant that have been on the order of 1000uSv.

I really wish everyone in the media speaking about the nuclear crisis would timestamp their comments accurately, ideally in GMT. People all around the world are trying to follow events, and it's nearly impossible to know when some reporter says something about an event whether they're using Japanese time, their local time, or GMT.

[1] http://www.facebook.com/notes/international-atomic-energy-ag...

Re: Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

#110

Post by hobbes »

guelo wrote: post #53

What the Russians did at Chernobyl was they asked the army for volunteers fully informing the soldiers that it could be a suicide mission. They ended up getting more volunteers than they needed.

Just to add to the public thrashing of your comment..

My Estonian father-in-law was given 5 minutes notice to pack his bags at 5am, and taken to Chernobyl along with many other Estonians. He had no choice. He was not told where they were going.

Thankfully, his task was to be a driver for the Russian officals (who wisely stayed some distance away from the reactor), rather than clearing up the power station.

4200 people who "volunteered" in a similar manner currently reside in Estonia. Many of those who were taken have since died.

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