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San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

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Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#61

Post by binspace »

jackowayed wrote: post #53
fleitz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question largely depends on your skill set and who you know. If you know lots of people in SF then it's going to be more difficult in Vancouver if you don't know anyone. I'm not sure what age has to do with the question though? Either you have have marketable skills or you don't. edit: After reading jackowood now I realize what the issue was, most places are up front about it and they look like really shitty pla…

I think his point was that if that subsidy exists for hiring people <30, once that subsidy stops applying, you'd expect companies to be less willing to hire you. The idea being that they could hire someone with basically the same experience and also get the subsidy.

Hopefully you have more experience when you are older.

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#62

Post by anigbrowl »

pg wrote: post #12
guywithabike wrote: post #3

What makes Twitter and Zynga more deserving of tax breaks than any other company in the city? Honest question.

As it says in the article, the problem is that the law covers not just salary but employees' stock gains as well. Twitter and Zynga uncomplainingly pay payroll tax on salaries like other companies, but the growth in their valuation combined with the fact that lots of employees get stock means that if the law were enforced, Twitter and Zynga would be hit with huge extra bills that other companies aren't.

That's not the issue - or rather, not for the city. They are not particularly anxious to get their hands on a slice of everyone's stock options. Losing payroll revenue from Twitter for 6 years is worth less than the potential overall gain from getting the company to move into the mid-market corridor over the long term. San Francisco is facing a 3 million sqft glut of empty office space in that area over the next 12-24 months, which will mean another 10-20 years of blight if they don't head it off.

By the way, anyone who's been seriously thinking about opening an office in SF should try to lock in lease terms this week. See http://www.scribd.com/doc/50842673/101155-economic-impact-fi...

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#63

Post by blazer »

aresant wrote: post #10
guywithabike wrote: post #3

What makes Twitter and Zynga more deserving of tax breaks than any other company in the city? Honest question.

Two notes: a) Not more deserving, but most companies in the city don't have to deal with the secondary tax mentioned. The 1.5 payroll taxes on gains from stock options is aimed at high-growth / go-public companies. b) The article is asking why do this to ANY company in the city. Even in small biz an additional 1.5% in regular payroll taxes hurts.

And most importantly they are big whales not startups. TC is talking about two big billion vauated companies and their problems.

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#64

Post by kaelswanson »

timr wrote: post #6

Oh, give me a break. I live in the supposed "tax free hooker area", and there are probably more hookers in the lounge of the Ritz Carlton than there are near the SF Furniture Mart (where the city wants Twitter to move). It's not like they're proposing to move them into an abandoned Happy Donut at the corner of 6th and Market. City hall and the Asian Art Museum are one block north. The opera, symphony and ballet are t…

My company is right next to that donut shop on 6th, hooker area hasn't got anything on the strung out homeless people near my office. I know this isn't the point of the article, but the bigger issue here is how the city handles its homeless. SF pays $200 million/year on homeless programs targeting the 7k homeless people, something is wrong with this picture.

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#65

Post by crux_ »

idiopathic wrote: post #58
pg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I've never said that startups do better in SF specifically, but rather the Bay Area. This problem is limited to the city. The difference between the two cases is that the employees are being taxed out of money they have (if they exercise and sell) whereas the company is being taxed based not on revenues but on the appreciation of its stock. So a company whose valuation shot up in advance of anticipated reven…

Ah, OK, now I understand a problem I can agree with - so it's not so much the damage from paying 1.5% on a profitable transaction (employees exercise options as part of winning start-up lottery) but rather the company has to pay cash for a gain it only realised in paper. So now I understand why they were saying a company going for IPO would have to pay most of the money raised as taxes, rather than just 1.5% of it. W…

I'm not sure I follow your post; apologies if it's my own up-too-late-itis. "When cash exchanges hands" is when the tax does apply, assuming by that you mean options being exercised.

That's why in my imaginary example a post or two ago, one of the more fantastical & unlikely parts of it was a full 30% option pool all being exercised at once.

Hence, (and I apologize for any inaccuracies in paraphrase) the post you are replying to is recasting the tax as a potential cash-flow issue, rather than a great and unfair ongoing burden: because it's not.

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#66

Post by vacri »

mc32 wrote: post #22
jRoden wrote: post #18

I'm probably a "fecking eejit," but what exactly is so stupid and ridiculous about the quote "Who are the [Twitter] investors? Probably some of the wealthiest people in this country. And we are giving them more wealth."? I mean, would the tax really hurt Twitter or Zynga? This stuff is just kind of disheartening. Oh no, your multi-billion dollar massive success of a company might lose a couple mil to taxes, better th…

Maybe i am too, but I can't figure out how SF is "giving" [the companies] wealth? Said companies are earning their own wealth. SF is not "giving" it to them, I'm sure. Let's say you were going to lease storage (physical) and outfit A had a flat fee of 50/mo. Outfit B had a flat fee of 70/mo plus appreciation on the goods you stored. Let's say 20/mo difference had negligible impact on your disposable income. Who would…

I might choose the one that is closer to me, or closer to where I would want to use the stored items. I might choose the one that also offers a parcel reception service. I might choose the one that has better security - some storage outfits are just a single room separated into lots by loose cardboard. I might choose the one with greater hours of access.

One day people will get that there is far more to 'value' than 'money'. SF is a nice place. People want to be there. Why shouldn't they capitalise on it? Boo-hoo, stupidly wealthy company can't take the heat, so go move to Idaho and see if that tax is really the kind of thing that cripples your tech company.

Rah, rah, private companies should be allowed to accrete wealth for their superior products because that's The American Way. But should a city offer a superior product, suddenly we're all supposed to be communist equalists when it comes to the public life?

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#67

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #12
guywithabike wrote: post #3

What makes Twitter and Zynga more deserving of tax breaks than any other company in the city? Honest question.

As it says in the article, the problem is that the law covers not just salary but employees' stock gains as well. Twitter and Zynga uncomplainingly pay payroll tax on salaries like other companies, but the growth in their valuation combined with the fact that lots of employees get stock means that if the law were enforced, Twitter and Zynga would be hit with huge extra bills that other companies aren't.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Doing Everything It Can To Drive Zynga And Twitter Away

#68

Post by scelerat »

mc32 wrote: post #22
jRoden wrote: post #18

I'm probably a "fecking eejit," but what exactly is so stupid and ridiculous about the quote "Who are the [Twitter] investors? Probably some of the wealthiest people in this country. And we are giving them more wealth."? I mean, would the tax really hurt Twitter or Zynga? This stuff is just kind of disheartening. Oh no, your multi-billion dollar massive success of a company might lose a couple mil to taxes, better th…

Maybe i am too, but I can't figure out how SF is "giving" [the companies] wealth? Said companies are earning their own wealth. SF is not "giving" it to them, I'm sure. Let's say you were going to lease storage (physical) and outfit A had a flat fee of 50/mo. Outfit B had a flat fee of 70/mo plus appreciation on the goods you stored. Let's say 20/mo difference had negligible impact on your disposable income. Who would…

Cutting straight to the chase, there may be hidden opportunity costs as well. You might attract better engineers if your company were in San Francisco rather than Brisbane.

Just sayin; ain't sayin it's so.

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