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Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

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Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#401

Post by akerl_ »

coldtea wrote: post #358
akerl_ wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the prevalence of comments like this, I wonder why any company would ever bother offering an apology or retraction. As soon as a company does something that a chunk of people on the internet don’t agree with, there’s really no way out. They’re going to get bad press regardless of whether they retract, whether they apologize, and whether they say they’re taking actions to avoid the sequence that led to the actio…

> As soon as a company does something that a chunk of people on the internet don’t agree with, there’s really no way out. And yet, tons of companies had done that, and suffered very little. Heck, any company has done something that "a chunk of people on the internet don’t agree with"... It's not about never doing anything wrong, or it being futile to apologize. It's about, you don't do THIS kind of privacy affecting…

Given that there don’t seem to be actual business repercussions from the internet mob’s displeasure, and the internet mob’s displeasure, once roused, cannot be quieted by apologies, changes in behavior, or explanations, it’s unclear to me that we’re actually “instilling” anything in companies, other than the lesson that it’s not worth bothering to pay attention to the internet mob.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#402

Post by clockworksoul »

ibejoeb wrote: post #383
mosselman wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This e-mail (which I also got) seems like a heartfelt apology. Even if it is heartfelt, I'd argue that if no alarm bells went off internally when they were discussing this feature, they are not the group of people to entrust with information such as this.

He dropped it on the Friday before the biggest holiday weekend of the year. He knows what he's doing. He's done it before, and he's still doing it. Just pulling power moves. Move fast and fuck shit up. The dude has personally tried to pull fast ones on me. This is a fucked company since day one. I brushed it off, but when you keep up these patterns for years...jog on.

>The dude has personally tried to pull fast ones on me.

Can you clarify?

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#403

Post by Mandatum »

dccoolgai wrote: post #119
dccoolgai wrote: post #84

I bet _most_ of their users aren't reading HN regularly and probably just skimmed past the email (I did). HN provided a nice little teapot for this tempest to play out in, from a larger strategic picture. As mad as it probably made them when that first user put the comment up the other day, that may have just saved their business from complete annihilation. If I were Ammon, I would find that person and send them some…

Perhaps more distressing to me, I got these emails but I _know_ I never actually signed up to the site: I just took the little quiz. I _know_ I didn't sign up because I recall being irritated that I had to sign up to see the results of the quiz - and I was afraid of something happening _just like this_. I was watching this because I was fairly certain - based on whatever they published about me - that I was going to…

Currently located in the EU and contacted my lawyer. Told them as such. I think they realised they fucked up from a legal standpoint more than anything else.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#404

Post by srtjstjsj »

mattm wrote: post #282
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised they didn't consider beta testing the feature with a subset of users to see how it'd go first.

According to one of the CEO's replies in the other comment thread, one of the drivers to push forward was that they need to meet their sprint goal. I don't have any inside information but it seems that this could also be a case of the downsides of deadlines. They set a deadline and then all other considerations go out the window when trying to meet that.

For anyone who thinks this is too ridiculous to be true, here is the CEO confirming this was rushed out to meet a fake-Agile fake deadline, without regard for how it might affect users or developers:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280137

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#405

Post by ryanwaggoner »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #301
washitallaway wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any European citizen is covered by GDPR no matter where they are located.

First of all, this isn’t popular with the EU crowd here, but there’s no method of enforcement for GDPR for American companies without a presence in Europe. Good luck trying to collect a fine from some tiny business in the US Second, you really think GDPR is going to be applied to some tiny American startup because they said they might do something and then didn’t? Third, my understanding is that if you don’t target E…

Here’s the text from the European Commission:

When the regulation does not apply

Your company is service provider based outside the EU. It provides services to customers outside the EU. Its clients can use its services when they travel to other countries, including within the EU. Provided your company doesn't specifically target its services at individuals in the EU, it is not subject to the rules of the GDPR.

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#406

Post by ryanwaggoner »

GhostVII wrote: post #367
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so he’s following the classic playbook about how to screw over your users and get away with it, but he also forgot to read and follow the part where he gets away with it? Isn’t it more likely that he just made a mistake, realized it, and apologized? You can reject the apology, of course, but it doesn’t seem like you have any evidence that it’s not genuine. In fact, the evidence you claim (“classic playbook”) yo…

I think the reason why this seems more likely to be malice is because the CEO's initial reaction to the backlash was not to listen to and understand the feedback, but to repeatedly try and justify their actions. To go from commenting all over hacker news about how you aren't doing anything wrong, to sending out an email completely reversing your decision a couple days later, makes it seem like the apology was more mo…

I was on the original thread. He made a few comments over the course of a couple hours, if that. He wasn’t “all over Hacker News”.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#407

Post by mthoms »

jki275 wrote: post #230
tikthot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some comments around here are extremely negative of the whole situation. More negative than I think they deserve People would have gotten laid-off to this. The dark patterns are just cherry on top. The negativity is well deserved.

I really doubt this. If a company would lay you off because you have a profile on a jobs network, they’re really a shit company you wouldn’t want to work for anyway. Not that I agree with their actions - anything like this ought to be opt in only, but I can’t see people getting laid off. I have a profile on linked in with my boss and multiple people from my company as contacts, I’ve got profiles on multiple additiona…

Scenario: You're the boss. Your company needs to layoff one of two people in a specific role. The two employees up for termination are more or less equal in terms of performance, wages, experience, etc.

You have strong evidence Employee A is unsatisfied and looking to move on. Employee B has given no indication of such.

Which one do you lay off? Keep in mind that unsatisfied employees often have a detrimental effect on the morale of their (otherwise content) co-workers.

Answer: You lay off Employee A. And not because you are a bad CEO or bad person. You do it because it's legitimately in the best interest of the company.

Now take the same scenario and substitute a promotion in place of a termination. Which employee will get the promotion? Which employee is in your best interest to invest more money and time in? I think you know the answer.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#408

Post by at_a_remove »

mattm wrote: post #282
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised they didn't consider beta testing the feature with a subset of users to see how it'd go first.

According to one of the CEO's replies in the other comment thread, one of the drivers to push forward was that they need to meet their sprint goal. I don't have any inside information but it seems that this could also be a case of the downsides of deadlines. They set a deadline and then all other considerations go out the window when trying to meet that.

I am trying to evaluate this as fairly as I can. "Sprint" is one of those words that just ... sets me off. I have to remind myself to be rational and measured in my response.

Having said that, "sprint" is not a word I associate with thoughtful progress toward a reasonable goal. What it does say is "rush forward in a heedless manner" and "don't think, just run."

Another artificial deadline dressed up with terminology that encourages plunging ahead without due consideration.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#410

Post by Mandatum »

It takes more than one person to design, approve and implement this feature. Ammon is trying to take the heat for a decision made by multiple people.

Right now, Triplebyte on a resume doesn't tell me anything very positive.

Why hasn't their VP of Growth or the Product Manager of Growth said anything on the subject?

People should be held to account. Working for a startup, it's easy to figure out who's to blame for these terrible ideas.

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