A day using money in Cuba • Hacker News Board

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#21

Post by graeme » Mon, May 25, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I actually went to Cuba on holiday, and I used the tourist dollars. It's incredible how this separates society into haves and have-nots. Basically everyone wants to be near the tourists. They'll invite you into their homes for food, they'll offer to take you around town, sell you some cigars, and so on. Since you have tourist bucks, you also have access to the tourist nightclubs, where you run into some regional cele…

Note that this separation is more due to the fact that you’re rich, than any formal currency arrangement. Foreigners in the 1990s got the same treatment, before any formal dollarization or dual currency system existed.

Cubans who make their money only from official sources are desperately poor. Those with connections abroad, connections to tourism or to the black market are richer.

The money difference merely makes it tangible. And the government goes a long way to try to separate tourists from the real society, though you can still get to it if you care to.

Source: worked there for an ngo for a year

>basically everyone wants to be near tourists

This is actually just the surface veneer. Anyone who approaches you speaking english is a hustler and does it professionally.

Cubans in wider society are interested, but also wary. The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners.

The typical cuban keeps to themselves, but the typical tourist will meet endless, non-typical hustlers.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#22

Post by trophycase » Mon, May 25, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I actually went to Cuba on holiday, and I used the tourist dollars. It's incredible how this separates society into haves and have-nots. Basically everyone wants to be near the tourists. They'll invite you into their homes for food, they'll offer to take you around town, sell you some cigars, and so on. Since you have tourist bucks, you also have access to the tourist nightclubs, where you run into some regional cele…

Most of central america and the caribbean is like this, from my experience. I'm not convinced that it has to do with the two separate currencies.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#23

Post by smallstepforman » Mon, May 25, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

And as a tourist, you’d always get change back in the wrong currency (worth 1/25 the original). And to make matters worse, the change will also be wrong in their favour. Hated being assumed that I’m a dumb foreigner.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#24

Post by smnrchrds » Mon, May 25, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #21

lordnacho wrote: post #11

I actually went to Cuba on holiday, and I used the tourist dollars. It's incredible how this separates society into haves and have-nots. Basically everyone wants to be near the tourists. They'll invite you into their homes for food, they'll offer to take you around town, sell you some cigars, and so on. Since you have tourist bucks, you also have access to the tourist nightclubs, where you run into some regional cele…

Note that this separation is more due to the fact that you’re rich, than any formal currency arrangement. Foreigners in the 1990s got the same treatment, before any formal dollarization or dual currency system existed. Cubans who make their money only from official sources are desperately poor. Those with connections abroad, connections to tourism or to the black market are richer. The money difference merely makes i…

> The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners.

This is news to me. Do you have a source for this claim?

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#25

Post by derrick_jensen » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

throwlaplace wrote: post #18

kmonsen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really see why though? I’m a socialist (the Scandinavian kind), but that seems a petty good description of what happened back then.

because what the fuck do two department stores have to do with state owned means of production? somehow anything that's the slightest bit off shows that sOcialISm iS eViL but the same kind of bad faith reading of any of the structures of capitalism is explicitly forbidden.

He is just stating it matter-of-fact, since they could use USD to purchase things at a (free) market price.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#26

Post by throwlaplace » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

derrick_jensen wrote: post #25

throwlaplace wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because what the fuck do two department stores have to do with state owned means of production? somehow anything that's the slightest bit off shows that sOcialISm iS eViL but the same kind of bad faith reading of any of the structures of capitalism is explicitly forbidden.

He is just stating it matter-of-fact, since they could use USD to purchase things at a (free) market price.

do you know what socialism means? also what he/she claims isn't in fact true. one of the two chains did allow normal people to shop there

>One chain belonged to the Vneshposyltorg (Foreign Mail Order Trade) and was intended for Soviet citizens who received some income in foreign currency. Some of them were forced to sell their currency for ruble-denominated Vneshposyltorg checks, while others never laid their hands on foreign currency, receiving their pay from Western sources in Vneshposyltorg checks via Soviet intermediaries (which, again, allowed the foreign currency to stay in Soviet government hands). The checks were to be used to purchase goods in the Vneshposyltorg Beriozkas.

but like i said feel free to keep perpetuating these bad faith interpretations

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#27

Post by bawolff » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

Yetanfou wrote: post #19

danlugo92 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to those who imposed socialism on others, but did not live in it themselves I'll violate the rule but I'll comment you were probably downvoted because of this part of your comment.

It would be... unfortunate... if the truth leads to downvotes. If it is really the case that people downvoted for that reason I would really like to know the reason why as it would indicate either a failure of their history teachers or an ideological stance.

Because its an irrelavent inflamatory political dig. How true it is is beside the point.

As an example with a different context, if someone was talking about the efforts of the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation to eliminate malaria, and then in the middle randomly added a dig about how MS had mean bussiness practises in the 90s, i would also downvote them, regardless of how true that might be.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#28

Post by SiempreViernes » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #24

graeme wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this separation is more due to the fact that you’re rich, than any formal currency arrangement. Foreigners in the 1990s got the same treatment, before any formal dollarization or dual currency system existed. Cubans who make their money only from official sources are desperately poor. Those with connections abroad, connections to tourism or to the black market are richer. The money difference merely makes i…

> The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners. This is news to me. Do you have a source for this claim?

Well, a bit of hyperbole I guess. The police actually arrest anyone that opposes the regime too vigorously on such grounds as them being “antisocial” or “dangerous.”[1]

With the current diplomatic relationship between the USA and Cuba, hanging around Americans too much is likely cause for suspicion.

I imagine fraternizing with Maduro-Venezuelans is not cause for concern, nor Chinese. Not sure about North Koreans, I'd hope that North Koreans are always cause for concern for any secret service.

[1]:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/world/americas/cuba-judge...

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#29

Post by derrick_jensen » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

throwlaplace wrote: post #26

derrick_jensen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is just stating it matter-of-fact, since they could use USD to purchase things at a (free) market price.

do you know what socialism means? also what he/she claims isn't in fact true. one of the two chains did allow normal people to shop there >One chain belonged to the Vneshposyltorg (Foreign Mail Order Trade) and was intended for Soviet citizens who received some income in foreign currency. Some of them were forced to sell their currency for ruble-denominated Vneshposyltorg checks, while others never laid their hands o…

State owned production and distribution. The things these markets sold were (most likely) not state produced or distributed, since they were Western goods.

Re: A day using money in Cuba

#30

Post by lordnacho » Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #24

graeme wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this separation is more due to the fact that you’re rich, than any formal currency arrangement. Foreigners in the 1990s got the same treatment, before any formal dollarization or dual currency system existed. Cubans who make their money only from official sources are desperately poor. Those with connections abroad, connections to tourism or to the black market are richer. The money difference merely makes i…

> The police arrest those who spend too much time with foreigners. This is news to me. Do you have a source for this claim?

Seems plausible. Some guys offered to feed us lobster so we went to theirs, but they insisted on hiding the cars we'd rented. People seemed pretty careful about cops.