Online Jamming and Concert Technology
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Online Jamming and Concert Technology
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Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#2Any amount of latency seems like too much latency when jamming with others. I could see how this would work with audio engines like SuperCollider, but I'm curious how one goes about this for live recordings.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#3We’ve been using JackTrip for a couple of years. I would recommend it to anyone looking into telematic performances.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#4Any amount of latency seems like too much latency when jamming with others. I could see how this would work with audio engines like SuperCollider, but I'm curious how one goes about this for live recordings.
Latency is kind of funny in the context of jamming. Sound only travels about a foot per millisecond. An orchestra pit is thirty or forty feet across. A big festival stage can be thirty feet across.
So we have these pretty ordinary situations where there's about thirty milliseconds of latency between when a drumstick strikes a head and a guitar player hears it. Of course, in a modern live pop performance there's all the crazy monitoring and latency compensation to try to make a football stadium acoustically comprehensible, but there is still the physical reality of how people normally play music together.
If I ping google.com from my house, on my crummy wifi, right now I'm getting about 10ms. This is roughtly the latency a guitar player experiences standing at the end of a 10 foot cord from their amp between their pick plucking a string and the resulting sound striking their eardrums.
Reality has latency.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#5Any amount of latency seems like too much latency when jamming with others. I could see how this would work with audio engines like SuperCollider, but I'm curious how one goes about this for live recordings.
Latency is kind of funny in the context of jamming. Sound only travels about a foot per millisecond. An orchestra pit is thirty or forty feet across. A big festival stage can be thirty feet across. So we have these pretty ordinary situations where there's about thirty milliseconds of latency between when a drumstick strikes a head and a guitar player hears it. Of course, in a modern live pop performance there's all t…
I was also thinking that keeping the latency constant across the group is much more important than keeping it as low as possible. Musicians could deal with 30ish ms delay once they get used to as they already do in situations you mentioned. Better than having it 10ms most of the time but with sudden drops for different players
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#6I've used JamKazam (https://www.jamkazam.com) a few times recently to play folk music with some friends. The sort of music we play relies very heavily on listening to each other and improvising, and surprisingly it _just about_ works on JamKazam. It's certainly not perfect, but we're not going to be hanging out in pubs together any time soon.
The important number is round-trip latency, and we found that around 25ms is good enough (we're all quite used to playing with people of varying time-keeping ability anyway). I think there's scope to improve on that using a library like Roc (https://github.com/roc-project/roc) where you can target a specific latency. I've been meaning to play around with it, but to be honest I'd rather be playing music :)
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#7I've used JamKazam ( https://www.jamkazam.com ) a few times recently to play folk music with some friends. The sort of music we play relies very heavily on listening to each other and improvising, and surprisingly it _just about_ works on JamKazam. It's certainly not perfect, but we're not going to be hanging out in pubs together any time soon. The important number is round-trip latency, and we found that around 25ms…
Forgot to add: I never came across JackTrip whilst researching options for this, so I'm quite keen to have a play with that.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#8Any amount of latency seems like too much latency when jamming with others. I could see how this would work with audio engines like SuperCollider, but I'm curious how one goes about this for live recordings.
Latency is kind of funny in the context of jamming. Sound only travels about a foot per millisecond. An orchestra pit is thirty or forty feet across. A big festival stage can be thirty feet across. So we have these pretty ordinary situations where there's about thirty milliseconds of latency between when a drumstick strikes a head and a guitar player hears it. Of course, in a modern live pop performance there's all t…
Yes, but reality also has a lot of established patterns for minimizing that latency so people can play together live.
Musicians in an orchestra pit or on a football field visually synchronize to a shared clock -- the conductor visibly keeping time. In a live setting, musicians use monitors (in-ear or wedges) that zip the sound of their bandmates to them via the speed of light.
I've never seen virtual jamming over a network without a shared clock actually work, because once you get to 200ms round-trip it just doesn't work.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#9You can use ninjam, reaper and audio hijack for audio syncing but video syncing seems problematic.
Re: Online Jamming and Concert Technology
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Latency is kind of funny in the context of jamming. Sound only travels about a foot per millisecond. An orchestra pit is thirty or forty feet across. A big festival stage can be thirty feet across. So we have these pretty ordinary situations where there's about thirty milliseconds of latency between when a drumstick strikes a head and a guitar player hears it. Of course, in a modern live pop performance there's all t…
Yes, but reality also has a lot of established patterns for minimizing that latency so people can play together live. Musicians in an orchestra pit or on a football field visually synchronize to a shared clock -- the conductor visibly keeping time. In a live setting, musicians use monitors (in-ear or wedges) that zip the sound of their bandmates to them via the speed of light. I've never seen virtual jamming over a n…
Have you seen it work
well WITH a shared clock? Could you share details of the setup? Ty