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Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#271

Post by p4bl0 »

krn wrote: post #118
ammon wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it was both. I wanted to move against LinkedIn profiles, I thought that opt-out was the way to get critical mass, and I screwed up and did not realize how large a privacy violation this was.

> I thought that opt-out was the way to get critical mass But what about following every dark pattern in the book to prevent people from actually opting out[1][2]? There was not even an option to opt-out indefinitely. It seemed like an extremely carefully engineered effort to trick the users. How can something like this be considered "unintentional"? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23280040 [2] https://news.…

> But what about following every dark pattern in the book

If the goal is to run after LinkedIn it seems a logical way to go, but they have a very strong head start on that.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#273

Post by greenyoda »

jki275 wrote: post #232
tikthot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cancelled because someone caught it and posted it here on HN. It would have been a different story if it's given no publicity

They emailed their entire user base and notified them of their intentions. You make it sound like they tried to hide this and got caught - that’s absurd given the facts.

They gave their user base only one week's notice of the upcoming change[1], and according to the discussion in the original thread, had dark patterns in their UI that made it hard to opt out of the feature (it would only allow you opt out for 24 months)[2] or cancel your account.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23279837

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23283237

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#274

Post by wolfgang42 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #90

I don't think I will sign up for Triblebyte anytime soon. Having a middle-man in the interview process can result in depressed wages.

> can result in depressed wages.

I’m (genuinely) curious how you think this could happen? When I went through Triplebyte they were eager to give me tips for negotiating a higher salary, since their commission is based on a percentage of the candidate’s first year salary.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#275

Post by BurningFrog »

travisjungroth wrote: post #245
enriquto wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if no alarm bells went off internally when they were discussing this feature, they are not the group of people to entrust with information such as this. On the other hand, once shit hit the fan, you could argue that these people would be extra-careful about fucking it up again, as opposed to another company where everything seems silently OK. It's a bit like the story of the engineer who did a 400.000 dollar mistak…

I also read a story on HN where a devops engineer made a $80k mistake and got fired. He got hired at a new startup and the founder thought "of course he won't make the same mistake twice". He did.

At least we can be sure lightning won't strike thrice!

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#276

Post by CathedralBorrow »

MintelIE wrote: post #231
CathedralBorrow wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the penalty for looking too kindly at somebody in this context?

One continues to be taken advantage of, over and over again. Assuming good faith is not prudent when dealing with people who want your money or data. We have enough collective experience at this stage to say this conclusively. Edit: Being cynical is the new normal when dealing with companies. Especially if they have your data, or want it.

Wait, I thought we were talking about kindness after they pulled the plug and backtracked on everything.

How am I being taken advantage of if I read that letter and think "Well, good for them to finally realize things and take the right steps"? And I hope you're not speaking for everyone when you talk about good faith.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#277

Post by colejohnson66 »

woofie11 wrote: post #43
ammon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Friday announcement was a result of us pushing to get the profile toggle feature out that the email linked to, and shipping late. Not something I'm proud of (either from an eng management perspective, or, more importantly, from a not violating the trust of our users perspective). It was a rushed schedule. In hindsight I see that the timing of the Friday announcement is ALSO a problem.

Hi Ammon, 1. There is an opportunity. 2. You did lose a lot of trust. 3. You didn't have enough trust in the first place to really take advantage of this opportunity. I would encourage you to think about how you can earn that trust. This comes back to transparency and checks-and-balances. If you want to go that route, you will need to build hard constraints: legal and technological constraints which would have preven…

> Your team has a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder value

That’s actually not true.

Also, your comment comes off as needlessly offensive:

> 3. You didn't have enough trust in the first place to really take advantage of this opportunity.

> I would encourage you to think about how you can earn that trust

You’re attacking him when he’s come back, owned up, and apologized for the mistake.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#278

Post by ryanwaggoner »

trfhuhg wrote: post #154

Nothing to see here. Ammon has tried a bold move to chase big money, used a few common tricks (release on Friday night, opt-out and other dark patterns), it didn't pan out and now he's doing damage control. When the dust settles, he'll give this idea another try. This is all from a corporate playbook, but it seems Ammon hasn't read the entire book. There's a chapter there that tells how to systematically manufacture…

Wait, so he’s following the classic playbook about how to screw over your users and get away with it, but he also forgot to read and follow the part where he gets away with it?

Isn’t it more likely that he just made a mistake, realized it, and apologized? You can reject the apology, of course, but it doesn’t seem like you have any evidence that it’s not genuine. In fact, the evidence you claim (“classic playbook”) you then invalidate immediately after (“he clearly forgot half the playbook”).

If someone makes a mistake, is there just nothing they can do to ever convince you it was not pure maliciousness? It seems like even an apology is then taken as evidence of ill intent. Why would anyone ever reverse course or apologize under your view?

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#279

Post by top-flight »

I didn't get the apology email. I immediately ask they delete my account which never got a response either when I got the public profile email.

I asked them to delete my account a couple years ago as well and they never did then either.

I will never, ever trust this company or use their product. There are other options out there just as good and not sketchy.

PS I like how the email went out on a Friday night too, even more sketch to try and limit # of people who opt out.

Re: Tell HN: Triplebyte reverses, emails apology

#280

Post by wolfgang42 »

dang wrote: post #62
trianx wrote: post #2

... (continuation of Triplebyte email) Rather than safeguarding the fact that you are or were job searching, we threatened exposure. Current employers might retaliate if they saw that you were job searching. You did not expect that any personal information you’d given us, in the context of a private, secure job search, would be used publicly without your explicit consent. I sincerely apologize. It was my failure. So,…

I'm going to inline this text into the top post so that everyone can read it. (Edit: that's done, and I deleted "continued in comments" - normally I'd ask for permission first, but in this case it seemed better not to wait.) You probably split the post up this way because the software told you the text was too long. Tip for the future: you can get around that by clicking 'edit' and adding the rest later. Don't tell a…

Would you mind also doing that thing where the comment is collapsed by default? I spent way too long trying to figure out what was different about this text compared to the email or the top post before I skipped down and saw your explanaion.
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