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Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

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Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#71

Post by getsat »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #30
raganwald wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightening up the tone, I wish we could figure out a way to use Stallman as a bad cop: "Mr. FCC chairman, I appreciate the arguments the Telcos have made to you on the Golf Course. But if you don't display a little flexibility on the subject of Net Neutrality, we're going to have Richard back in here eating his toenails during the hearings. And once he starts talking, it's impossible to get him to stop. Nobody wants…

we're going to have Richard back in here eating his toenails I find this incredibly disrespectful. I considered flagging it because I think it's on the order of insulting someone's spouse, but I don't think that's exactly what "flag" is for.

Not antagonising you, but you are aware that he did something similar during a lecture once, right? His lack of concern for social norms is... intriguing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#72

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

peterwwillis wrote: post #51
snippyhollow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that a fully free cell phone OS is preventing you from being tracked. Even if free software was bug/backdoors free (I'm not sure about it). How do you connect to the network? Through a SIM-card, with an ID, linked to your cell-phone contract. And whatever goes on the broadband/network of your cell phone contract provider is free to read for him. You don't initiate your phone…

You can be tracked anywhere there's a communications infrastructure. It is required for things like law enforcement as well as being part of the protocols that run the network. Since basically every country on the planet does this, comparing it to a Stalinist order seems retarded, and I don't think it will ever change.

Better yet, if you are transmitting anything, there's these wonderful devices called "Radio direction finders".

We dont need to know how GSM is transmitted, or what encryption schemes they're using. If you are outputting a signal, you can be found. Hell, there's competitions for RDF.

Now, just not carrying a cell phone is a good idea on not being tracked. Next best is taking the battery out of the phone. "Off" does not mean off, even in airplane mode. Some GSM frames are still transmitted, as per what my fellow ham geeks have told me (I'm one as well).

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#73

Post by Someone »

ck2 wrote: post #56

Just put your phone into airplane mode when you aren't using it. It has the benefit of making the batteries last extra long (because the cell and wifi radios are turned off).

I have not read this article, but RMS surely would argue that without a completely open stack, you cannot really know what airplane mode does. You can check that it doesn't broadcast at any moment you want to check that, but how do you know it doesn't switch on for 5 seconds every 4 days, 13 hours, and 52 seconds, except for Thursdays or in March? Also, how do you know that it isn't listening for secret commands all the time?

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#74

Post by anthonyb »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #32
ekidd wrote: post #16

There are many valid criticisms of Richard Stallman: He sometimes fails to show ordinary courtesy, even to his supporters; he can be spectacularly bad at common techniques of persuasion; and he has creeped out some women by making passes at them (or so they tell me). There are some morally neutral things which may be said about Stallman: His views are far out of the mainstream; he is uncompromising even in small matt…

There is the joke that even a broken watch is correct twice a day. I do think his communication style, his use of hyperbole, and his unwillingness to bring the listener 'along' work against him in most situations. However, he does have a self consistent line of reasoning as far as I've been able to discern for all of his positions. But lets step back from the messenger for a moment and look at the message. Richard's…

Well, if all software was free, you could run your own base station, not just a phone. Likely other people would do the same thing. With a free and open cell network, tracking an individual cell phone would become much harder.

Another option might be for your phone to check into a different tower, or only check in at intermittent intervals, but I'm not sure that that would be enough - signal strength would probably give you away.

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#75

Post by icefox »

codex wrote: post #70

In some U.S. states, cars cannot legally operate on the road unless they've been "validated" by the government. This worries me greatly; I should be able to drive whatever car I want, free from unwanted control. And this is why, instead of getting my emissions checked every year, I choose not to use cars, or even public busses.

Solved that years ago, just need the money to get a chauffeur

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#76

Post by ldh »

codex wrote: post #70

In some U.S. states, cars cannot legally operate on the road unless they've been "validated" by the government. This worries me greatly; I should be able to drive whatever car I want, free from unwanted control. And this is why, instead of getting my emissions checked every year, I choose not to use cars, or even public busses.

I should be able to drive whatever car I want, free from unwanted control

Even if that car is a coal-fired chariot with whirling spikes extending from the axles?

I agree with your sentiment entirely, but also recognize that so long as I live within the confines of human society, absolute freedom is impossible.

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#77

Post by bumbledraven »

Drug dealers have known for years about untraceable cell-phones. One brand in the US is (strangely) called "tracfone". You can buy one for $20 cash, and, since there's no contract, it's way more difficult to link you to the device and therefore more difficult to track your movements.

Also, I don't think proprietary software is a moral issue. People should have the right to make and buy something non-free if they wish. I do admire Stallman's principled lifestyle, though.

Finally, it's interesting that Kevin Kelly (former editor of Wired), in his awesome book "What Technology Wants", also makes the case for not owning a cell phone, but for different reasons.

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#78

Post by drinian »

samatman wrote: post #46
drinian wrote: post #28

It's worth noting that the Chinese government is in fact debuting a system to track the movements of every cell phone in Beijing right now: http://beta.sg.news.yahoo.com/beijing-trial-mobile-tracking-... This isn't a prediction, it's reality today.

The Chinese government also runs the Great Firewall using primarily open source technologies. Free software on phones? If anyone can sideload whatever they want onto any platform they want, it's the Chinese. How does this help you, when the cellphone towers are tracking your phone's every movement, and when attempts to evade that tracking are sufficient to get you arrested or worse? The nature of the license for the…

You're right, RMS could carry a Free Software phone right now, the OpenMoko. I think that your comment is basically condensing his argument. This problem is bigger than a Free Software issue, but any solution would require a Free Software base to resolve issues of trust.

That being said, it's going to be really tough to find a technical solution that allows people to be found in an emergency, but not tracked by a Big Brother government. The solution might end up being legislative.

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#79

Post by ck2 »

Someone wrote: post #73
ck2 wrote: post #56

Just put your phone into airplane mode when you aren't using it. It has the benefit of making the batteries last extra long (because the cell and wifi radios are turned off).

I have not read this article, but RMS surely would argue that without a completely open stack, you cannot really know what airplane mode does. You can check that it doesn't broadcast at any moment you want to check that, but how do you know it doesn't switch on for 5 seconds every 4 days, 13 hours, and 52 seconds, except for Thursdays or in March? Also, how do you know that it isn't listening for secret commands all…

Well just take the battery out then, lol

Re: Richard Stallman: Cell phones are 'Stalin's dream'

#80

Post by xorglorb »

Someone wrote: post #73
ck2 wrote: post #56

Just put your phone into airplane mode when you aren't using it. It has the benefit of making the batteries last extra long (because the cell and wifi radios are turned off).

I have not read this article, but RMS surely would argue that without a completely open stack, you cannot really know what airplane mode does. You can check that it doesn't broadcast at any moment you want to check that, but how do you know it doesn't switch on for 5 seconds every 4 days, 13 hours, and 52 seconds, except for Thursdays or in March? Also, how do you know that it isn't listening for secret commands all…

Wire a toggle switch to cut the connection between the baseband and the antenna, and it shouldn't be able to transmit more than a few inches.
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