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Why no looting in Japan?

caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com

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Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#31

Post by donw »

tc wrote: post #10

From Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! ; Feynman and a colleague are staying at a traditional Japanese hotel in Kyoto: The next morning the young woman taking care of our room fixes the bath, which was right in our room. Sometime later she returns with a tray to deliver breakfast. I'm partly dressed. She turns to me and says, politely, "Ohayo, gozai masu," which means, "Good morning." Pais is just coming out of the…

(I know the excerpt is from the book, but I feel compelled to respond).

No, they're just different. Better in some ways, worse in others.

If I had to summarize Japan in one word, it would be 'harmony', or 'Wa' (和). People here don't rock the boat, and don't want to upset the status quo. The few that do find themselves more often than not pushed to the bottom of society.

Because of this, kids go through twelve years of indoctrination, where they learn to think, speak, and act like a unit. They emerge from this into a four-year vacation (university) where very little is asked of them, after which it's expected that you will either become a researcher, or put on a suit and become a salaryman.

The Japanese system is great in times of crisis.

It sucks if you want to start a company, or if you've got a startup and want to hire employees.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#32

Post by kstenerud »

kstenerud wrote: post #20
splat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be really interesting if true. Do you have any sources to back that up?

No. The Yakuza generally do not participate in civilian affairs, nor are they interested in "policing", except where someone becomes a personal nuisance to a higher-up or someone disrupts their business. Their primary interest lies in the financial side of mizu-shobai type establishments, gambling, and money laundering. They also offer thug-work-for-hire, which is helpful when the police aren't, but you've got to be…

What I am saying is that the lack of looting has nothing to do with the Yakuza.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#33

Post by kmfrk »

staunch wrote: post #15
dfischer wrote: post #7

The Japanese have a lot of respect. When I visited a common thing said was "If you leave your wallet on the street and come back a day later, it's likely it will still be there or in the closest shop."

This actually happened. When we were living in Tokyo my wife lost her wallet. A day later she found that it was sitting in the basket of her bicycle outside our building. This was a busy street in a business district (Nihonbashi) with hundreds of people going past it and it was a large new coach wallet with at least a few hundred in cash. Not that someone wouldn't have eventually stolen it though.

>Not that someone wouldn't have eventually stolen it though. Japan is only nearly Utopian.

Let's be careful with the orientalism. The suicide rate[1][2] is one thing that personally bothers me.

Japan is fundamentally different from the West, and this has its advantages and disadvantages.

[1]: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_count...

[2]: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_OECD_...

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#34

Post by fanboy123 »

micheljansen wrote: post #25

This is something that really surprised me about Japanese culture. I went there in 2008 for a study tour and one of the things that really impressed me is how different their attitude towards shared property and public space is. On numerous occasions I saw things where I thought: wow, in my country (The Netherlands) this would totally get abused, vandalized or stolen. Not that my country is not safe or dirty, just th…

Was surprised at same types of thing the first time I visited. I believe this question is answered by this new york times article below about Japanese lost and founds. I've asked my friends about the phenomena and they attribute it to a sense of duty/routine - normally nobody even thinks twice about turning in a lost item.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEED71131F...

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#35

Post by donw »

micheljansen wrote: post #25

This is something that really surprised me about Japanese culture. I went there in 2008 for a study tour and one of the things that really impressed me is how different their attitude towards shared property and public space is. On numerous occasions I saw things where I thought: wow, in my country (The Netherlands) this would totally get abused, vandalized or stolen. Not that my country is not safe or dirty, just th…

There's plenty of graffiti, just not in plain sight. Look in the alleys.

Regarding the trash, there's two forces at work. One is that there's a rich naturalist tradition here. Japanese love nature, which is why you see so many people enjoying the parks here. Littering goes against that tradition, and the second force at work is that Japanese people really don't buck tradition.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#36

Post by donw »

kmfrk wrote: post #28
kstenerud wrote: post #6

Same reason nobody vandalizes vending machines, even when they're quite literally in the middle of nowhere along the side of an unfrequented road in the countryside. Same reason it's unthinkable for a Japanese to take fruit or berries hanging outside of someone's yard, even when it's falling off the branch and rotting on the ground, and yet they'd hardly think twice in their downtown drunken stupor to steal a bicycle…

Japanese vending machines also have a safety lever (of sorts) that makes all the beverages free, in the event of a catastrophe. I don't know how it works specifically, but I'm sure there would be better ways than to vandalize the machines in order to obtain the contents.

The thought process is probably more like: Why would you vandalize the machine? All of the people that use this machine would be upset. I don't want to upset all those people.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#38

Post by michaeldhopkins »

kstenerud wrote: post #30
michaeldhopkins wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they have not. Roman Briton was a different society than pre-Roman Briton. The Anglo-Saxons came about 1500 years ago and nearly completely replaced the Britons, genetically and culturally. The Norman invasion was about 950 years ago and greatly changed Anglo-Saxon culture, although not as much as the AS changed post-Roman Briton. There were several other invaders (Danes, etc.) as well. By contrast, the Japanese…

3000 years of writing bad Chinese poetry. edit: It's a JOKE, people.

No, about 1,500 years of influence by Chinese poetry, and assimilation took a long time. I don't know enough about it to say if it really is bad, but I do know that Norman England produced some excellent poetry -- chiefly Chaucer, and that was only 300 years after William.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#39

Post by donw »

thret wrote: post #23
dfischer wrote: post #7

The Japanese have a lot of respect. When I visited a common thing said was "If you leave your wallet on the street and come back a day later, it's likely it will still be there or in the closest shop."

I can vouch for this based on my own experience, my wallet seemed safer by itself on the train than in my pocket in any other country. OTOH, every school girl gets felt up on the train.

That's why they have 'women only' cars now.

As a slightly amusing story, a very Japanese-looking American ladyfriend of mine used to live here. She's ex-military, and more than a bit of a redneck, but you couldn't tell by just looking at her.

So, one day she's on the train, and some guy cops a feel. Women here more often than not don't react to it, but ex-Navy chicks are a different story.

Mr. Pervert got decked, cursed out in English, and arrested at the next station.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#40

Post by donw »

panarky wrote: post #8

Japan certainly has social mores that discourage petty crime. There are also practical considerations at play. The damage is so severe that there's not much left to loot, and there's and nowhere for looters to keep what they steal. The article makes comparisons with Haiti and Katrina, but the damage in Japan is more total than either of these. In many towns there is literally nothing left. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…

Also, if you loot, you're ostracized. You will forever be remembered by your community and friends as a thief.

It's very, very hard to form a new group of friends, if you have no existing connections to leverage.

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