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Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

kodfabrik.com

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Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that lots of people are missing that part. The Kik guys were doing their corporate double-speak b/s about ‘let’s find a solution’ when the only solution is handing over the name. All while threatening with door-banging lawyers. And he did offer them a solution: $30,000 dollars, to which they promptly - albeit indirectly - replied with fuck you .

The guy made a very valid point: We must pursue our trademarks or risk losing them. We must. So can we make this amicable instead of hostile? The maintainer could have requested things like "Okay can I make some blog posts and you help me with some SEO to make sure people are aware of the changes to my project name?" etc. Sounds like Kik was willing to be reasonable and help where they could. Clearly they could have…

This trademark thing must be the next biggest popular HN misunderstanding after the whole "act in the shareholders interest" debacle.

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#332

Maybe they're still angry with him about leftpad. Yes, it really is the same guy: https://kodfabrik.com/journal/i-ve-just-liberated-my-modules . And, joking aside it would be wise to bear in mind that we're reading only one side of the story here. As with leftpad, there's another side to this. With leftpad he told Kik, "fuck you" ( https://medium.com/@mproberts/a-discussion-about-the-breakin... ), and then wrought gl…

Nobody can uncritically take his side but what you are implying here is that we should consider him "less" because of an unrelated story.

Why can't you uncritically take his side? Because company good, developer mean? If you want to say kik has a right to the three letter package name so be it but absolutely no one has the right to continue using someone else's work for their own gain. Especially not a company that threatened him with lawyers within three emails.

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#333
post #85

There are people inside Google that must have thought this review and communication process was a Good Idea. It wouldn't have gotten built otherwise. Will these individuals continue to be putting Good Ideas into production indefinitely or is there some sort of immune response inside Google? I have no interest in a scape goat or anything like that, I'm just curious if there's a way to incorporate the real-world conseq…

One thing I've noticed working for a variety of companies is that highly profitable companies generally do not have consequences for even fairly dramatic failures, both in terms of how they treat customers and how they treat employees. They simply have too much money, so there's little need to do so. In a tiny company, a large failure can easily be the end of the company, so they're far more motivated to care about t…

VP of ATT Wireless Billing fired the number portability group and hired an outside firm to do it, right before the date the FCC mandated people be allowed to switch carriers and keep their cell number. Took a few months to fix the issue, and ATTWS was fined millions per day.

The VP made a boatload in a bonus for outsourcing a major group with expensive Seattle engineers and offshoring it. Then the company paid millions to the FCC in fines for the fuck up. He kept his job.

Saw this cycle repeated all over, VP replacing expensive hundreds of millions in telecom equipment then go working for that vendor as a VP for them cough nortel cough...

Shit kept moving along, saw VP's back in the day push for the expensive per minute charges on low income phones while allowing the cheapest rates or inclusive long distance for normal users. The costs to keep the extra expensive billing and bad press of gouging the poor was ignored util it made the news. Shrug, change policy, nothing to see here.

Google is losing Joe Rogan due to censorship, while Google is running off their most watched creators due to guest censorship. Theres even people making plugins to get around googles censorship (msm channel blacklist, pockettube, etc).

The whole control angle of companies strangles customers and developers to create new platforms, bad mangament is a great opportunity for startups to take on these issues and grow into major companies. Spotify is just the modern day Napster. Bitchute is a wayward home for censored conversations. Paypal decided to ban people for politics and now dozens of companies are biting into their market, Square/Stripe etc.

People are tired of being controlled by FANNG companies, nextdoor took off due to facebook, companies are trying to keep the afloat with the largest consumer base, but once the market is shattered with fleeing/banned users and customers, new companies will pop up. Myspace tried to control the market, facebook took over, now facebook controls what you see in your feed, and people flee, so facebook buys up the startups people flee too.

Tiny companies fill the need, we just need to make sure they get funded to continue and grow, crowd sourcing is one area that helps.

I'm loving that hackers and programmers who hate being told what to do and how to act, are coding and design ways around this problem. Chrome extensions is a good idea, but soon google will ban them, Dissenter as an example. When chrome is too controlling people flee to the next browser. Look at how many browsers there are now doing what Google is lacking.

I cant wait to see what people build to rebel against "the system", and theres now methods to fund them, the future looks great. Everyone keeps talking about the same issues, as if its an accepted fact, then someone comes along and builds a platform/app/extension that fixes it.

And people move on...

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the "other side" of leftpad? As far as I remember, the broken system wrought havoc, not the developer who chose to withdraw his modules. I don't think the developer's reasons are much relevant when discussing how reliable their word is.

The broken system allowed him to be a dick. OK, so the is more to it than that and he did have a genuine grievance (I forgot exactly what) bit in dealing with that he caused a pile collateral damage for innocent bystanders. (Innocent bystanders who errantly put too much faith in dependency oriented programming which brings us back to the broken system)

[deleted]

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that lots of people are missing that part. The Kik guys were doing their corporate double-speak b/s about ‘let’s find a solution’ when the only solution is handing over the name. All while threatening with door-banging lawyers. And he did offer them a solution: $30,000 dollars, to which they promptly - albeit indirectly - replied with fuck you .

With regards to the trademark issue: > and we’d have no choice but to do all that because you have to enforce trademarks or you lose them. They aren't threatening him for the fun of it, this is classic trademark stuff. Also the "solution" he offered them was: > Yeah, you can buy it for $30.000 for the hassle of giving up with my pet project for bunch of corporate dicks Would _you_ give this guy $30,000, after he call…

Good luck trying to enforce trademark law for namespace on a public code repository.

It’s “classic trademark stuff” insofar that people classically don’t understand what a trademark is or how it’s enforced.

Consider reading through Github’s policy on trademarks[0] to better understand why a casual fuck off should be given whenever you get misleading, threatening emails.

[0] https://help.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-tradema...

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy made a very valid point: We must pursue our trademarks or risk losing them. We must. So can we make this amicable instead of hostile? The maintainer could have requested things like "Okay can I make some blog posts and you help me with some SEO to make sure people are aware of the changes to my project name?" etc. Sounds like Kik was willing to be reasonable and help where they could. Clearly they could have…

This trademark thing must be the next biggest popular HN misunderstanding after the whole "act in the shareholders interest" debacle.

Could you explain the trademark misunderstanding in a bit more detail?

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#337
Everyone should realize by now there are no bots at Google. There are only Google engineers and outsourced workers behind every single “bot”, figuratively and literally.

Every nightmare story about accounts being disabled by a bot, or Adsense payouts being canceled, or apps taken out of the App Store, or extensions being shutdown, all done by Google engineers or outsourced workers.

These Google people are doing it because they can and because they are jealous of others’ success. They are also doing it because Google has lost their way in the last few years and they are bored, among other reasons.

They also continually screw with web site search results to harm certain sites, individuals, and companies for much the same reasons as mentioned above.

Trust me when I tell you that there are no bots behind these final decisions. It’s being done by Google engineers and their outsourced workers.

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#338

Maybe they're still angry with him about leftpad. Yes, it really is the same guy: https://kodfabrik.com/journal/i-ve-just-liberated-my-modules . And, joking aside it would be wise to bear in mind that we're reading only one side of the story here. As with leftpad, there's another side to this. With leftpad he told Kik, "fuck you" ( https://medium.com/@mproberts/a-discussion-about-the-breakin... ), and then wrought gl…

> I only have two data points, so the behaviour here is a coincidence rather than a pattern, but I will guarantee you whatever you think of Google there is more to this than meets the eye. You seem to want us to question the narrative based on the likability of the developer, but is it really relevant? Can you really imagine a data point that we don't know that will change the narrative of "solo developer getting ste…

To add to this, I think the reason this particular developer is seen negatively by some is that he does kick up a lot of dust in these situations. Most developers would (understandably) feel like this wasn't worth their time and just silently give in to the bigger company's wishes.

So while his "likeability" is completely irrelevant, how else would we even hear about these issues if he didn't make a big fuss about it? I think that also might explain why we heard of this story twice from the same developer. The truth is people face similar issues every day but no one hears about it. I'm glad that some people kick up a lot of dust and make the issue visible to everyone.

Re: Unable to deal with Chrome Extension Team, Kozmos is shutting down

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that lots of people are missing that part. The Kik guys were doing their corporate double-speak b/s about ‘let’s find a solution’ when the only solution is handing over the name. All while threatening with door-banging lawyers. And he did offer them a solution: $30,000 dollars, to which they promptly - albeit indirectly - replied with fuck you .

The guy made a very valid point: We must pursue our trademarks or risk losing them. We must. So can we make this amicable instead of hostile? The maintainer could have requested things like "Okay can I make some blog posts and you help me with some SEO to make sure people are aware of the changes to my project name?" etc. Sounds like Kik was willing to be reasonable and help where they could. Clearly they could have…

“We must” is nonsense on the part of Kik. That’s part of the corporate b/s where people make it seem like things are “out of our hands.”

If he was releasing a messenger app called KikAss, then sure, they “must” enforce the Kik trademark.

But if I release a brand of shoes called Kik, with an api that allows users to poll how many steps a user has taken that day, that’s not a trademark violation.

Trademark violations require intent to mislead, or they could be unintentionally confusing (for example, if Kik has been talking about releasing shoes for a while or if it’s a well known brand of soccer balls).

Neither of these things have occurred, so the trademark doesn’t have to go through a (futile) enforcement process.

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